Season 5 Episode 2: Byte: 2024 Tableau Conference Debrief

0:02Ravi, we made it back for a second episode.

0:05We've done a this is the key, right?

0:07How habits start when you're consistent or something like that?

0:10Correct.

0:12Third episode then we can call it uh a habit, right?

0:14Um how have you been?

0:16How have you been?

0:17It's been a busy old uh couple of weeks, right?

0:19It has, yeah.

0:20So just I got back from the Tableau conference on Friday night

0:24Right.

0:25It's a lot long trip, I think eleven hours flight from um San Diego to London and then the trip from London to Manchester.

0:32But no, it's been good.

0:34I think I spent

0:35just under a week over there, um was able to visit some of the sports organizations there as well, learn a little bit more about that and

0:43explored San Diego a little bit.

0:45I think there's a lot to unpack, but it's it's it's an interesting city.

0:49The night we arrived I immediately

0:52'Cause we had a few hours, I think we landed at three.

0:54Alright.

0:55A few hours to stay awake 'cause obviously going that way, the objective is don't sleep.

0:59Um immediately changed into shorts and a t-shirt.

1:03And of course about an hour later it started raining

1:07How bad was the rain for San Diego?

1:09Was it was it like atypical or just quite hard?

1:11Just just to sprinkle.

1:13But like there was enough of a breeze, right?

1:15Like and the temperature drops for sure.

1:17So that that was something that uh I was anticipating.

1:20But then again, coming from Manchester where it rains over 250 days a year.

1:26It's delightful.

1:27So enjoy that.

1:29But yeah, a good conference.

1:30How about you?

1:31What's been going on?

1:32Not much.

1:33I've been trying to cover conference as it was.

1:35So um

1:36It's funny when I it's interesting if I don't go to conference things end up being actually more hectic for me whilst I'm at my desk.

1:44Basically.

1:44It's just a little bit it's a little bit more of demanding.

1:47So I obviously did the two live stream.

1:48No, just the one live stream actually.

1:50I didn't do the endvis live stream.

1:51Um

1:52Um because I was trying to get through a two-hour keynote four times to do the summary video.

1:58It's a it's a it's a mechanic people don't understand with editing, but like

2:02If you're gonna do something like that, that you obviously did the live stream with the keynote, that's two hours gone.

2:08Then there is I need to watch that again because I was live streaming and I wasn't actually paying attention.

2:13So there's another two hours gone.

2:14Quick hack for that.

2:15I watched that on 2X.

2:16Like, so it's just like I I can get through this quicker, right?

2:20Then I needed to record the video of my thoughts.

2:23Yep.

2:24And then I had to go get the footage from the conference.

2:27and then splice that with my thoughts.

2:28So that's basically another third watch, right?

2:31And then when I'm done with that, there's kind of like a pseudo-fourth watch, which is watching

2:35watching the edited video and making sure there's no mistakes.

2:38Like watch it again, rewatch bits again.

2:40It's just like, oh my word.

2:42So um I'm happy I got that out though.

2:44So you're a pro you're a pro, right?

2:46If you if anyone asks you at the Tableau Keynote 2024.

2:50Basically, yeah.

2:51But like the the thing the thing about that though is if you don't get it out within 24 hours, it's also useless to everyone else.

2:57Right, because um people uh people people make up their own minds.

3:02So I actually got it out a little bit late, but I got away with it because it was so much to cover that people hadn't quite

3:08got into it.

3:09And there's this phenomenon where I think the most likely people to have done an update about it were the people who were there who were too busy to be doing an update about

3:16it so I kind of like got a breather for once because no one had done it yet.

3:23How was the live stream?

3:24Like did you get many people on?

3:25Is was it a a

3:30It missed your presence, Ravi, if that's what you're seeking an answer for.

3:34That's all you really want to hear, isn't it?

3:37We missed you, Ravi.

3:38Everyone missed you, of course.

3:40Of course we missed you.

3:41No, um, it was 55 people, like at peak.

3:44The way YouTube works is they're like

3:45Like people come and go.

3:46And then the point of doing that is actually the video then becomes a video afterwards.

3:50So I'm not really doing it for the live stream per se.

3:52I'm doing it so that there's

3:53uh watch along on the channel.

3:55But um it was really good.

3:56Francois joined, you know, the usual sort of suspects joined, which is always which is great.

4:00Had really good back and forth.

4:02Um had um Kirk also tuning in as well and quite a few people who actually I had a few people who were at the conference but didn't want to watch at the conference because it was a bit too hectic.

4:10So they kind of took a step away from the conference venue to watch it remote

4:14and sort of joined in with with me.

4:15So that was good.

4:17And I enjoy doing them with people because I think there's a social element that you get that's sort of

4:22of adds a different level.

4:23You can't talk during the keynote, right?

4:25Like if you're actually there.

4:26So I feel like quite privileged.

4:28I feel quite privileged because here I am talking smack whilst the person's talking on stage.

4:33And yeah, I'm not I'm not interjecting.

4:35If you don't like the talk, you can you can go watch somewhere else, right?

4:37Like they had it on YouTube this year as well, which I didn't account for.

4:40Not that it's a bad thing, but it's um I was live streaming Salesforce Plus.

4:44I should have just live streamed YouTube, but anyway, right.

4:46That was all good.

4:47Yeah, so yeah, but let's let's get into that actually.

4:49So yeah, uh uh as you might have guessed, listeners, we're talking about the Tableau Conference this episode.

4:54That's sort of

4:56the main thing we're we're we're covering.

4:58And I think um we have two interesting perspectives, Rebbe, because A, you're a customer, fantastic.

5:03B, I'm sort of, let's just call me Tableau's hype machine.

5:07For now, like right, like so.

5:08I'm uh I'm quite biased.

5:10Teach you a well tableau, Tim.

5:12Teach them well tableau.

5:13There you go.

5:13Like you can't ask me how I thought the tableau conference was, because I think everyone will think I will say that it went really well, right?

5:19So

5:20Let's ask you the customer how was Tableau Conference for you?

5:23And you went in person, I was remote.

5:24So yeah, how was it for you?

5:27More Tableau, right?

5:28I think there was a very conscious effort.

5:30Yeah.

5:31Like even when you go into like so that the way they set it up, previous years, it's almost the this four-day long thing where your first day like partners every

5:39sort of arrives then you've got the keynote then the sessions and then you might have something else on the there there used to be a um a sort of guest speaker come in uh for an afternoon keynote for example on the first day

5:51Then you'd have devs on stage and then I'd be the second day and then third day would then be like half a day and then you can go home and there'd be a few community sessions there as well

5:59This year I think they did it really in an interesting way, which I actually preferred.

6:03So the first day was just sessions, like holiday, etc.

6:08Existed, but like

6:09If you're a customer um and and you you turned up, um it was just about sessions.

6:15So from 9 a.

6:16m.

6:17to 4 30, there was just session after session after session that you could attend.

6:21And a lot of the sessions this year were repeated.

6:23Uh which is really good, I think.

6:25So, you know, oversubscribed sessions like the Flooders, where they actually put a breakout room for them.

6:30So there was like the room where they're there doing their talk.

6:33And then another room for overflow at that same time.

6:38That's crazy.

6:38Um, which is fantastic.

6:40And and of course th those sessions were recorded back as well.

6:45So there's two really the two two sort of things I want to call out as really positive.

6:48One one was, yeah, I really like this thing of

6:51Sessions main day, which is keynote stuff, ironviz.

6:56And then the final days as as normal, again, ran ran for the full full day.

7:02I like that.

7:03And then the second thing I liked, which is it's kind of semi-controversial.

7:07They had used Einstein AI for all the sessions.

7:10So all of the sessions were transcribed, which is great.

7:13But what's really interesting is you then get the Einstein summary after that session is finished.

7:19So like for me, when I I know I I I attended some sessions, but not a whole number of them because my conference track.

7:25just yeah is slightly different.

7:27Um I can now go back onto Salesforce Plus and actually find the ones I really want to watch and then just work out what they talked about because session titles are

7:36sometimes so misleading.

7:38Uh like you go in expecting to listen about I don't know actual map players, but then you're learning how to mess around with them and do all sorts of funky chart types.

7:46Interesting.

7:46So I think I think that that worked really well.

7:48Um

7:49But yeah, the the the the the note I mentioned about it being more tableau than cell source in person was really kind of like subtle, but if you're looking for it, you found it like slap bang in your face.

8:01Um

8:02The grassy features gone.

8:05Salesforces had their own little corner and the animals were around, but like again, not in your face.

8:12The graph the um there's a corner in the data village which is only the connections between cell source and tableau.

8:21So if you wanted to learn more about MillSoft and Tablet, go over there.

8:24If you want to learn more about Salesforce Data Cloud and the SFTC connector and all the improvements they're making between to integrate them closer, there's an entire section dedicated to that.

8:34But if you were a Tableau purist, you could just sort of like avoid that area and still feel feel happy.

8:40And I think that that kept a lot of the

8:44Uh the folks who who almost are allergic, I'd say, to Tableau.

8:49I'm I'm kind of like repulsed by the sample's brand, I'd like to say.

8:53I'm very non-PC about it.

8:55Yeah, there is this sort of

8:57Just like it is it's not childish, but it's it's it's this thing 'cause it's like Naive is that the word maybe.

9:09No, no

9:10No, it's this sort of like instant repulsion because it's not habit, right?

9:14Like it's it's essentially that.

9:16And it's tribal fandom.

9:20You see this in football and soccer a lot, right?

9:22Where

9:23As an Ipswich talent fan, team that just got promoted to the Premier League.

9:27Thank you very much.

9:28Did they get promoted?

9:29They did.

9:30Oh my word, how did I miss that?

9:32Do you know what this means?

9:34Are still gonna be playing a football game twenty minutes from my home at some point next year.

9:38There we go.

9:41Send me an Ipswich shirt.

9:42I'm coming in Ipswich fan just so I can see an Arsenal match.

9:48Can I get on the Ipswich season ticket list uh at short notice?

9:53Surely not.

9:53I mean absolutely not.

9:54It's not gonna but like and as as an Ipswich fan it

9:57Anything, obviously East Anglia, which is where you live, Tim, now.

10:00Um East Anglia is has like the tribal fans of Ipswich and the tribal fans of Norwich, like anything yellow and green, I'm repulsive.

10:08For no good reason.

10:09Yeah.

10:09And in a similar way, you could say that about, you know, the Salesforce Blue, the cloud, the furry animals, the greenery.

10:20But I think I think there's a I think this is just Salesforce doing their job really well.

10:25You know what I mean?

10:27Like I think somewhere inside of Salesforce they're like

10:31Uh there's there was like an objective, which is to sneak the self-source brand in, but not make it too strong.

10:39And that for me just scored a big fat tick.

10:42It it was intentional.

10:43They made a point of calling it out.

10:45So let's not kid ourselves here.

10:47And I'll come back to why I'm making that point later on.

10:50And I don't say that in a in like a negative way.

10:52I'm just saying like

10:53Um yeah, they they listened.

10:55That's all it is, right?

10:56And they for sure.

10:58And I think that's a really let's not make Salesforce be the topic here.

11:03Let's make Tableau be the topic.

11:05And we'll get what we need out of it.

11:07And it was super important given they were presenting something new.

11:10And and and I think that um that listening piece is really important.

11:13I think that was really made clear in Ryan's

11:16keynote so Ryan Ate CEO of Tableau really focused on this is the community these are things you've asked for and here's what we're delivering for you based on what you've talked to us about

11:26And I think what is really worth pointing out here is I think whilst there is a very vibrant community, very vibrant community who are closer to the fire.

11:36Right, like if you if you think about how hot how hot close you can hold your fans to the fire and how far the closer to you and how far away you are from it

11:44There's a community that listen very closely and tell you know this is what you need to keep the fire going.

11:49But then there's also the ones who are a bit further away that are using the light.

11:53if we would extended this analogy further, um who also should maybe feel like their voice has been heard because they're speaking to customers.

12:01There's a whole idea that how do we elevate

12:05people who are way at the back of the conference or outside of the conference route or watching on Salesforce Plus, how do you bring them closer along this journey and make sure that

12:13things we're doing also help them yeah whilst being committed to the core user base as well.

12:20Yeah.

12:21It was good.

12:22Um and you know, from a from a remote perspective, I'd say they did a better job.

12:26I think a third of the sessions that were at conference were recorded.

12:29And I don't know if you've been to Salesforce Plus, I found there were like sixty-five unique sessions that, you know

12:35I'm sort of making my way through all fantastic or recorded really really well.

12:39And you know what?

12:40Salesforce has a platform where you can just go watch these things without having to go to YouTube and find them.

12:44There's no ads, it's just there, it's perfect.

12:47So, you know, I can't as much as people might not like the brand, I think there are huge merits to having a company the scale of Salesforce behind Tableau because

12:56is it can do these kinds of things really, really well and and they're good at it.

13:00The whole Salesforce Events operation runs probably one of the largest events in the world.

13:04world every single year.

13:06So um yeah Dream Force is is is something that Tableau could always learn from and um and

13:12And sort of go on from.

13:14Let's talk a bit about the content at conference.

13:17Sort of let's uh we talked a bit about new features, the vision, but let's

13:23Let's let me ask you this.

13:24What stood out for you in terms of new capabilities at conference?

13:27Because I think you go to conference with two things, the new features, what's being announced, what's coming.

13:31Then you also go for the networks.

13:33and connections.

13:33We'll come to that shortly.

13:34So if you focus on the features, what what stood out to you?

13:36What can you use?

13:38What can you do with stuff now that you couldn't do before?

13:40What are you hoping to, what problems are you hoping to solve as Tableau would like to

13:45I'm gonna start with the one that solves a problem that I'm think a lot of people weren't sure they had, which is Tableau Public Desktop.

13:53Alright, so I think I'm a I'm a big fan of Tableau Public.

13:55A lot of people who start with Tableau start with Tableau Public.

14:00Yeah.

14:00I remember the first time

14:02I downloaded it 2015, late twenty yeah, early 2015 was the first time I downloaded Tableau.

14:08Um Tableau 9.

14:090 as Tableau Public and I was playing around with an Excel spreadsheet.

14:14Now I then had to leave my computer on all night running Tableau because if I closed it, I'd lose it.

14:22Because I didn't want to upload it because it's a piece of work that's not finished

14:27And if it was Uniwork, for example, uh that I was doing using you know the visualization capabilities of it

14:33Don't want to publish publish that.

14:35You make it private when you publish it, but is it really private?

14:38Real in reality, someone could search it and stumble upon it.

14:42So no autosaves.

14:44No autosave, right?

14:45Right.

14:45So if it crashes, it crashes.

14:47So I think that that solves a problem that a lot of people didn't have, didn't know they had.

14:51And I think I think the biggest element for me there is

14:57Tableau have spent many years sort of pushing um WebWall through, right, to say that you know the best experience you can have with Tableau desktop actually is in Tableau Web Edit.

15:07That it's clean, it's easy.

15:08Let's we're trying to make cube parity between desktop and web edit.

15:12And it's been this constant topic at conferences and keynotes.

15:16Now what the push to web doesn't account for is um

15:21disenfranchised folks in countries where you might not have good strong internet connection.

15:27And this solves that problem to an extent, right?

15:29If there is now a commitment from Tableau to say

15:31There will be a version, no matter what, there will be a version that you can use if you don't have internet, which is Tableau Public Desktop.

15:39Now if they then make make this big leap into web wolf through only, that that solves that problem, right?

15:44Yeah.

15:44Can I let me back that up with a fact.

15:47What is the largest audience wide sorry, what is the largest continent audience-wise for Tableau Tim?

15:55Asia?

15:57Yes.

15:58By what factor?

16:00Go on.

16:01So like US US I was in like Sen X

16:04It it's about 3X.

16:06So the whole of Asia outpaces North America 3X on my YouTube channel.

16:11The point you just made there is actually extremely valid in that setting, right?

16:15Because by enabling that massive body of users who, you know, would take take um India, India is actually country number two after the US in terms of viewers, I think

16:27If I give some channel stats, it's 35% US and then it's something like uh 31% uh just in India, right?

16:36Like in terms of like my audience, then it's like

16:39UK and Germany at three or four percent, which I always find bizarre because I'm an English YouTuber.

16:44But anyway, like like how 'cause no one in this country

16:47watch my content.

16:48But anyway, um what that tells you is actually that problem you just highlighted is bigger than you think because a lot of the places where Tableau is used

16:56Not necessarily bought, where it's used in um you know outsourced teams around the world, they need access not just to use tablet, but to learn tablet.

17:06They need to be able to prototype and execute things.

17:08without having to worry about licenses and this has just probably enabled that audience and that audience is typically turned to Power BI for the very reason that it just exists instead of Office 365.

17:18They already have access to Penil

17:20Yeah, so that this this is very much a Trojan horse.

17:23Now what concerns me is that like how are tablet gonna market this?

17:27You can't just change the feature and I think they'll say, Oh well Tim, you made a video about it.

17:31Yes, I did, but like

17:32I barely scratch the surface.

17:33There needs to be like a a marketing plan, right?

17:36And uh, you know, they need to not rely on the community because the community is not good at penetrating what?

17:42the exact place you need this product, which is in the in the trenches of Power BI, right?

17:47Like, so you need to have a marketing plan that goes deep into that community of users within Power BI and actually gets this message.

17:54out there.

17:54Otherwise it's kind of you just you you've not actually had any real impact on the capability.

17:59But anyway, I'll cut you short on that one.

18:00Karen.

18:01Yeah.

18:01No, no, that was it.

18:03That was it.

18:03It's really exciting for me, I think, as as we get involved.

18:07My other top two features, which I'm sure that we'll cover in depth as well, I'm going to talk about cross-data, cross-data source joins with between tele data sources

18:19So being able to create data published between published data sources.

18:27Composable data sources.

18:28sources.

18:29Not the same as shared dimensions.

18:30Although shared dimension is a prerequisite of composable data sources.

18:34Oh my god, this is about to get so hard to explain to people.

18:38Yeah.

18:38I mean and this this was the other sort of

18:41Yeah.

18:42Like there's a clear marketing problem, right?

18:44Like um I was talking to one of the techies.

18:51It was uh table extensions.

18:53I ended up talking to a product manager

18:55Thomas and Hahn, who we should absolutely get on this podcast.

18:59Yes, yes.

19:00We don't want to leave Tableau though, so let's not do that.

19:03Yeah, there we go.

19:04The curse continues.

19:06So I was talking to him about like a problem I had with um Databricks connection, for example, and the fact that we wanted to do do something interesting with Databricks that we're not sure if we can do.

19:17And he's like

19:19But that's why we create table extensions like sorry this this is this is probably me being incredibly naive and sort of glossing over and when someone started talking about table extensions me sort of zoning off

19:30But I didn't even know that was what table extensions did.

19:33Right?

19:33Like when someone says table extensions to me, I'm like, oh right, cool.

19:37So conditional formatting just got to be

19:39easier.

19:39Like in that.

19:41No no if I if I watched your video Tim, I could maybe Rabbi, what can I say?

19:47Like come on

19:48If you just if you just hit subscribe and just drip feed my content, you'd know this.

19:54You know this, Rabby.

19:56Oh my god.

19:57Anyway.

19:58No, a hundred percent agree with you.

20:00Table extensions not to confuse with table calculations, not to be confused with uh dashboard extensions, not to be confused with analytical extensions, but they all kind of occ operate like all the all the same problem space.

20:12We have this with AI, like Tableau coming out with Tableau AI, and there's Einstein, then there's Einstein co-pilot, then there's Tableau, like just so many terms.

20:22And it it what sometimes it feels like is different teams

20:26Have what I like project names.

20:28Project names go to marketing as disparate things.

20:30Marketing comes back and says that's what you're gonna call it.

20:33But none of those people

20:35I'm sure this is such a such a bad assumption.

20:40It appears that there is no oversight over all of that.

20:43A bit like Apple, where Apple comes up with lots of marketing names.

20:46But when they say XDR, it means a very specific thing.

20:49When they say air, it means a very specific thing.

20:51When they say pro, it means a very specific thing.

20:53But that is kind of what's needed here, right?

20:57This is a tangent, but they they've changed what air means, right?

20:59Like what air used to mean is the thinnest lightest device.

21:03It's no actually it means light for L I T E rather than light as in weight

21:07Right.

21:08It is pro light, uh as in pr it's bringing the pro features to everyday people at a lower price point than pro.

21:16And then if it's just the product net, oh my god, I can't believe we just spun off into like a tech segment.

21:22But okay, let me just break this down because I just finally got this three days ago.

21:26True, true, true.

21:27So when Apple names a product, if it's just a product like the iPhone, that is basically the vanilla product, right?

21:33If it's an air, the way to think of it is it's last year's Pro

21:38features brought down to a price point in between the normal product and the pro product.

21:44So it goes Which would be the S E, I guess

21:48Or uh S E only applies to the phone range.

21:50But yes.

21:58Uh god, yeah.

21:59Um and so they have this sort of demarcetation.

22:01But you know, i in in laptops and in sort of the technology they have all of these, like face ID, like that's a that's a brand name, like uh touch ID, that's a brand name, right?

22:10Um they have things like XDR, HDR, Airport, MagSafe.

22:15Like that means a specific thing.

22:17Not actual names of anything.

22:19Yeah, just

22:20Liam said Tableau have this problem.

22:22And I think it's just because of 20 years of legacy.

22:25This is what's happened.

22:27But

22:28You know, there is this discoverability problem, and I think one of the features they showcased Einstein Copilot actually aims to solve that.

22:36And it's a very, very nice touch.

22:38because I think it will help pull some of this knowledge forward.

22:41It will help you sort of realize that hey, this is something you could be doing with this.

22:44And just out of curiosity, people will be using that capability and and

22:47going and sort of trying it.

22:49For everyone's benefit, table extensions.

22:51I'll just explain this now because we've just spent five minutes talking about it, not actually explaining it.

22:56So table extensions, the capability in Tableau.

22:58that at the point of connection, so the way to think of this, when you're connecting to your data source, you're able to bring in uh, let's say, a logical model, let's just say this is one of those squares in the

23:08connection window and in that square you can call a third party application via R or Python and it makes that call

23:18as it's processing the data.

23:19So this is different because it it's done at a specific point in the rendering engine.

23:24So it can be done at the point of connection to the data source.

23:27So let's say go get weather data for these locations at the point you're refreshing the data

23:32And it can also be done at the point of aggregation.

23:35So there's two places it can actually happen.

23:38If live.

23:38Exactly.

23:39Exactly.

23:39And so

23:40There's a really there's a really useful benefit in those two places.

23:43And the reason it's called a table extension is purely because you're bringing in a table of data into the connection window and that is essentially allowing you to go and compute something

23:53Not the same as what most people think tables are, which is exactly what you thought like tables in a in an actual table.

24:00The category that Tableau takes the piss out of.

24:05Oh my word.

24:06So yeah.

24:08Composable data sources.

24:09Compose with data sources.

24:10I think this my my initial reaction feedback was this will probably change how I think about how we set up our Tableau server data.

24:16sources because suddenly I'm able to have a live connection that is able to compose publish data sources together.

24:25And that means I'm only refreshing one table because we we have to refresh our data because sometimes in some cases it's just too big.

24:33big.

24:33But I'm able to now use that one extract published data source in many different areas and not have to refresh A and B and C and D and D in order to get the beautiful like almost

24:46It creates a table of specific extracts, right?

24:49And would you say you are using relationships as effectively as you could be?

24:55We're not using them at all.

24:56Because it's it's well sorry.

24:58Still joining data, Ravy.

25:00We we it's a lie.

25:01We we we are using them, but it's not we're not using the model as much as we could because it's just

25:06hard to comprehend, but I I I still struggle to explain why it doubles or misses data.

25:12And Tablo also struggles to explain that back to me.

25:16100% valid.

25:17Yeah, 100% valid.

25:18I'll give you a question.

25:19Which is another thing that Thomas has explained to me about three times whenever I brought this exact issue up.

25:23He's like, Oh, but it's just this.

25:25We should definitely get him on.

25:27Yeah

25:27Yeah.

25:27To explain this in his words.

25:30I have to be tight-lipped because I've ha I've I've I've talked to Thomas about this exact problem.

25:34And so for that reason I can't I can't say anything there.

25:38Like I I I what I'll say is this for a long time I was always sat here going why can't Tableau just do this to help make this easier?

25:48And I spent an hour talking to Thomas and I realize, okay, I've just been schooled here by someone who knows a lot more about this than I do

25:56Whatever Thomas is working on, he's way ahead of whatever you're thinking of.

26:00And uh yeah, like it's it's a harder problem than you know.

26:04Um

26:04For lots of good reasons.

26:05And published data sources is actually one of the things that took a while to solve because Because they had to do the data model first, I guess.

26:12They had to do the data model, but then they also had to solve composable um data sets and and and relationship because you then you fall into this trap of being able to bring in two published data sources that refer to the same asset

26:25And if you don't fix that, you can have what is like basically a never-ending cycle between between things self-reference.

26:33Yeah, exactly.

26:33Exactly.

26:34So you have to solve that problem with shared dimensions.

26:37So number three for me is for the extensions, which is just gonna change the game.

26:43Yeah.

26:43Right.

26:44Like here's the thing with that.

26:46Viz extensions ability to add new charts to Tableau.

26:49Done.

26:49Simple.

26:50Specifically an API that allows developers to add that capability.

26:53Okay, great.

26:54Simple.

26:55Here's the thing.

26:56As a company,

26:58Are you going to use the tablet exchange to give you those features?

27:02Or is there a world where actually something that no one I think took away from the sessions was you might pay someone?

27:10To build your own set of bespoke visualizations to solve very specific problems within your context that actually are very valuable for you to do.

27:19Now, to me, that latter one is actually

27:22Incredibly.

27:24Yeah.

27:24Exactly.

27:25No one's talking about the value of the value of the value of the value of the value.

27:27Conversations I've already begun to have, right?

27:29Yeah.

27:29Exactly.

27:30Get a web developer in, get like a D3 library as a reference that you've seen, and just describe the chart types you want and how you want it to interact with Tableau.

27:40Bring it into your world and then that that that narrative that, you know, someone has been asking you for for years is suddenly possible with a single data source rather than having to do scaffolds and all of this stuff, right?

27:51And and the the in in my particular world, this is

27:54probably the single biggest exciting thing that's happened because in my world we're using a business intelligence software

28:04to solve football intelligence problems which are just different.

28:10Right?

28:10Like in order to create in order to create a pass map, you need a very specific data structure

28:17A very specific set of dimensions, a very specific size of data, very specific width of data, a very specific setup on your page that I have to, we've got a guide for this, right?

28:29Like to say.

28:30For a user to build this themselves, you need to do this and then you do this pitch map, and you need this one, and then you do this.

28:36Like it's a step-by-step guide.

28:38Imagine if you just take the X and the Y's and it's just in the format that we get from the data provider

28:43And it's able to take that row by row and just be like, yeah, cool, I can deal with this because I'm just doing everything on the fly as you require it.

28:51And the thing that takes longer is Tableau computing calculations, Tableau rendering in BSQL.

28:56And you're suddenly like, what if we just didn't use VizQL?

28:59Let's take that out.

29:00Yeah.

29:00Let's plug in JS and suddenly you're sh you're flying.

29:05And you know, the bit that excites me is, and I I think this is again another thought that I'm not I'm not seeing people have yet.

29:10With this, which is well, it doesn't have to show a chart.

29:16You know what I mean?

29:17Exactly.

29:17And that's my work, right?

29:18That's our work.

29:20What if what if instead of a chart you had um, I don't know, um

29:26Uh there's there'd be there'd been use cases in the past in sports where people have wanted to be able to map um telemetry onto

29:33Um, let's say a golf swing.

29:35Let's say you got s a golfer playing golf, and I they're gonna swing a swing a golf club, right?

29:39And you've got sensors on them and you're measuring different things.

29:42Yep.

29:42Imagine being able to augment their golf swing with data and what you're seeing is not a chart, it's actually the video and all you're doing is

29:50dragging what you need to onto dimensions to pull up the video.

29:52F F1.

29:54Exactly, exactly.

29:55Like bespoke visualizations for bespoke narratives.

29:59And all you're doing is using the tableau sort of platform as a as a vessel rather than as a

30:04thing.

30:05And and this is this is where you suddenly might end up seeing Tableau become the platform they thought they were four years ago, right?

30:10Like w where you're trying to bring things closer together.

30:15By understanding that why a tableau eats isn't necessarily complex chart types.

30:20It's not the calculations.

30:21Where it eats is it's the best visual exploration tool out there.

30:25Like it is the easiest place to

30:27explore your data, fail fast, and get an understanding of the contours of your data before deciding what you want to do with it.

30:33And it's just incredibly easy to build charts in.

30:36Yeah.

30:36Yeah.

30:36And repeatably build charts in.

30:38And I think that those were three key pillars.

30:41Now, is it is it the best to use for Sankey charts?

30:44Is it the best for a chord diagram, for a sunburst, for

30:48A numerate amount of chat?

30:49No.

30:50But suddenly it could be because someone can just code up for you.

30:55Yeah

30:55The the the one of the things I thought of is like imagine a website like The Pudding creating a Viz extension for all their stories, right?

31:04And then letting you use their narrative storytelling approach

31:08within Tableau.

31:09That's that's just they've done the web development already.

31:12All they need to do is put marks and shelves and color and you're off to the races.

31:16Suddenly you're making their visits using their stores.

31:19And and fine and finally you almost get this nice area where if you're a tableau product dev or PM and you're just like okay cool, we've got all these chart types that people are asking.

31:30asking for.

31:31You know what?

31:32Build it yourself or let the community build it.

31:34And then if it's good enough, we'll also take it on and build it and we'll Sherlock it.

31:39Exactly.

31:41Oh god, absolutely.

31:43You'll do you'll do what App will do to every single app, right?

31:46Like the journaling app on day one.

31:48Eventually, yeah.

31:49Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:50Um the final thing I think I'll call out is the um

31:57What's it called?

31:58Shared dimensions.

31:58And then this is one of those things where how do I explain this to people?

32:02Shared dimension.

32:04And specifically what's coming in 24.

32:062, which is almost like a preamble for then what's coming in 24.

32:113, right?

32:13These next two releases to me are really important and because they I think they're going to enable people to to do a lot more.

32:19And going back to relationships, I think we almost need like what I would call like a

32:23a data connection crash course of some sort.

32:25I'm probably going to write that down as a video idea, right?

32:28And just be like, we're going to spend four hours and we're not going to go anywhere but the data connection window.

32:33We're going to show you everything you can do in this little window, right?

32:36Just to get your data sources set up.

32:39So I think it'll be hugely beneficial for everyone.

32:42And yeah.

32:43Good.

32:44Um yeah, I mean the the thing we could we could just go through the list of stuff that was was shared as sort of the top features, right?

32:51And it's real.

32:52Let me let me pull it up.

32:52Let me pull it up.

32:53Can I I can screen share on this

32:55Wow, look at this.

32:57Magic.

32:58Who would have thought?

32:59I didn't even know.

33:00Because there's one that I there's two I want to call out and sort of dig into like

33:04So which uh are you talking about the slide that you made the mint the mint screen.

33:10The mint screen.

33:11You know exactly what I'm going to find, okay.

33:13Okay, good.

33:15Um What while you're finding that I think the um the the sneaky good one is like a tableau natural silicon.

33:21I think that's gonna be I think I spoke to that.

33:25I'm already using it.

33:26It's fantastic.

33:26Absolutely.

33:27Jonathan Drummond told me like you have to you couldn't take a screenshot, you have to do a screen recording because it opened so quickly.

33:34Yes, yes.

33:36Yes.

33:37Like if you're a Mac user with a tablet, you just use to the the balancing app icon.

33:43And the spinner, and suddenly it just deleted.

33:48Insta deleted.

33:49I was so happy about that.

33:57Oh man, where is you know what it is?

34:00It's on WhatsApp.

34:01Um have you got it on WhatsApp?

34:03Okay.

34:06Of course, a little um side side chat with m with um with Mark.

34:13What I have done here, uh hold

34:16I'll have to edit this bit a little bit.

34:18Yeah.

34:20Or maybe not.

34:21Just keep it in.

34:22Save s save me some F

34:25Here we go, got it.

34:26I shared it with you even on that.

34:28Wow.

34:28Yeah, exactly.

34:29That's that's me who's sharing it.

34:31You definitely gonna add it to the section.

34:33I think the um one area is the Microsoft

34:37Getting closer to Microsoft, I don't think anyone saw this happening, right?

34:41Like in one on one side you're sort of like competium power.

34:45This was obvious to me.

34:46You have to.

34:47You have to.

34:48You don't have a choice.

34:49Like look m look at Microsoft getting slapped on the wrist by the EU and the American um justice system.

34:56for having a monopoly by basically bundling in teams into um people's contracts, right?

35:02Like and and do you know what they're doing going forward?

35:06They've said, actually, yeah, that's probably a good idea.

35:08Yeah, we shouldn't have done that.

35:09What are they doing?

35:10They're saying going forward, new customers have to pay separate price for teams.

35:14That's great for their revenue, isn't it?

35:16Well what a coincidence.

35:18Uh but they're not saying anything about the seventy-six billion customers they already have historically.

35:23So um this is the this is the slide we're talking about.

35:26Here it's there, just stem sharing screen that I say.

35:28Um it'll be available in the video pod if you're looking if you're looking at the um

35:33If you're listening on the podcasting app, I will do my very best to put a link to this of some sort to this image in the show notes so you can have

35:42But have a look.

35:43Um but I I actually got some confirmation from Tableau um that this is not a full list of the features that I'm gonna

35:50that are coming out.

35:50So this is just the top the headline.

35:53Yeah headline features.

35:54These are normally like the headline features for a release.

35:57There are going to be lots of other smaller features that's

35:59sort of support this as well.

36:01And I think we also got a few more that aren't on here on Devs on Stage at the very end, which annoyingly

36:07They didn't showcase in the live stream, so it didn't actually see them.

36:11No one who was remote saw them.

36:13Can I just call that out?

36:15Whoever's you know multicast in the live stream.

36:17I think that's a there's a good reason for that

36:20Why?

36:21I'm assuming that the features weren't ready, all weren't ready like that.

36:24No, no, no, no, but everyone everyone in the keynote was taking a screenshot and sharing them on Twitter.

36:28So if it wasn't good enough to share on stream, why sharing it in the conference room itself?

36:34Do you think it's w uh well it could be a mistake?

36:38Anyway, so frustrating.

36:39I've no I've not seen that slide.

36:41If anyone has that slide, please, dear God, send it to me.

36:44That obviously any people at Tableau can actually send it to me.

36:46But yeah, Slack me.

36:48I'm on Slack.

36:49Anyone at Tableau, please send me that slide.

36:51I really appreciate it.

36:52So so on the on this list uh Yeah, let's have a look.

36:54Yeah.

36:55So obviously we talked about the composable it's also talk about Tableau Desktop Public, which is quite an interesting again, terrible marketing.

37:02Just call it public desk like public for desktop anyway

37:05Um scroll a Tableau Desktop free edition, literally.

37:09Which is what they don't want to call it.

37:13Yeah, so we see how I had to spell it out in my post, right?

37:16Like I was like, what does actually mean is it desktop free-ish to borrow some of their marketing terms.

37:21That will never leave them.

37:22Ish will never leave the tablet marketing band.

37:25I'll always use it for everything.

37:27But the the the VizQL data service API is another really interesting idea, right?

37:32Like if you're sold

37:34It's all right.

37:35It's been around for a while.

37:36So we've been having it recently.

37:39But again, it's it's I'm interested to see what the community do with that, right?

37:42So like imagine you could you could use the way of rendering Tableau.

37:47But with not Tableau.

37:49Right, like that's effective.

37:50There is, yeah.

37:51There is a world.

37:52There's a realistic world where you could use everything up until the data source

37:58From Tableau and everything beyond there in your own application or third-party setup, even a mobile phone app.

38:06There is also another world where you can do the exact opposite, right?

38:11Um you can uh actually no strictly speaking that's not true because you don't have a way of just using the charting capabilities.

38:19Or actually, do you?

38:21There might be.

38:23I need to go away and think about that, but there might be a way.

38:25But anyway, they've actually broken down the platform into its components.

38:30And this speaks to the vision of, you know, that we're gonna come and talk to in a bit, of being able to sort of take all these assets and put them together from lots of different contexts to build a like a bigger picture.

38:39And I think it's it's super interesting.

38:42I I will say though that this this list of features I think has to be viewed in a specific light.

38:49I think you have to delete you have to look at this and say, who am I?

38:53And then ask yourself, what here can I actually use?

38:57And if you actually do that at say uh Tableau Cloud Manager

39:02That's coming out, but it's only available in data management.

39:04That's a sort of really good setup.

39:06Migration SDK improvements.

39:08Again, you can only benefit from that if you have the add-on, advanced management, to allow you to use the migration SDK in the first place

39:15Share dimension, great fan list.

39:17Line buffer.

39:19That is an enhancement that has already been released in 24.

39:231.

39:24So I'm not sure why it's showing here as 24.

39:261.

39:27Two.

39:27Maybe there'll be an improvement.

39:29Easier to get it.

39:29Maybe maybe another improvement.

39:31So fine.

39:31Describe sheet shows source tables for measures.

39:35Describe sheet shows.

39:36Oh my god, this is such a tongue twister.

39:39Describe Sheet shows source table for measures.

39:42Let me just think about that for one second.

39:44The describe sheet.

39:45So the describe sheet features

39:47shows source tables for measures.

39:50So actually where why can they just say describe sheet describe sheet tells you

39:57Doesn't fit on one slide, mate.

39:59That doesn't fit on one slide.

40:00Fine, fine, fine.

40:02Someone has spent more than half like two minutes, but I just wasted trying to think about this.

40:08Summarize this into one five words or less.

40:11Tableau and Apple Silicon, niche feature.

40:14Doesn't matter to view everyone else on Windows, right?

40:17Subrange, refresh, incremental, extract.

40:20Oh, that's interesting.

40:21So again, I'm just gonna spitball what I think this is it.

40:23is being able to do incremental uh extracts on sub s on the on parts of your data rather than the whole entire set.

40:30Call my understanding as well.

40:32Hyperforce.

40:33Um essentially cloud capabilities like AWS, uh Visual data service, okay, composable data sources, okay, custom theme for easy formatting, okay, about time.

40:44And you say about time, the extent of this hasn't really been properly tested, has it?

40:51Like I'm not seeing it in betas

40:52Um really want to understand how how much it really formatts.

40:56Everyone saw this as templates.

40:58Let me be absolutely clear here.

41:00Let's just let's just get this absolutely straight.

41:03Whatever you think it is, it's not.

41:05And I the way Tableau rolls out, and I'm just gonna go off on the tangent here and just say this again and again and again.

41:15Because I it kind of frustrates me a little bit.

41:17When Tableau do a new feature, they never knock it out of the park on the first release.

41:23That's not a shade.

41:25That's not me saying, hey, Tableau, you know, don't understand how to listen to people.

41:28No, no, no.

41:30They always phase in improvements.

41:32There's not been a feature in the last

41:35Five years just turned up out of nowhere other than Tableau for Apple Silicon that hasn't been previously tested, right?

41:41Like you know what I mean?

41:43And it's always come out in bits.

41:45Data model.

41:45the virtual connections.

41:47They've always had here's an initial set.

41:49We'll let you do fonts and titles.

41:51Then in the next release we'll add something else to that.

41:53And then in the next release we'll add more to that.

41:55So in three years and two years, yes, we might actually be sitting at something we call templates.

42:00That is the vision.

42:01But for now, it's probably just gonna be titles and colours.

42:04And that's fine.

42:05Yeah.

42:05And and that's why I made that point.

42:07Because I just I don't want people to get their hopes up and then dunk on it on day one.

42:11Because what that does is it dunks on the product developers who are doing really good work and have a roadmap because that's how features are developed.

42:18um to kind of you know sort of um flesh these out.

42:22Resource monitoring.

42:23Again, you need the add-on private link for AWS, probably need the add-on public profile page, uh custom ordering.

42:30That's Tableau Public.

42:31That's folders.

42:32Folders table public.

42:33Yeah.

42:34So a lot here that's not sort of really as you say, sort of

42:46I was thinking what I was saying is not well thought through

42:50What I meant that there's a lot of features on here that don't apply to everyone.

42:53And therefore, when you see this list, you can't just look at it and say, oh, it's all for me.

42:57There are things that for different things.

42:58And that's how you should look at every feature in every product that you consume.

43:02Like not everything is for you.

43:04Yeah.

43:04Yeah, yeah.

43:05The other thing in this is that um obviously server doesn't get an update in twenty four dot three, so there will never be anything in that.

43:12that year.

43:12It's only not to a year, every other release.

43:15There's some years where there's only one release.

43:17So here's the kicker.

43:19Next year you'll get something in January and then nothing until the very end of the year.

43:25Right?

43:26Which is fine.

43:27Again, as I said, admin like and then in 26 you'll only get the point two release.

43:32So this point two this year is the only release this year for server.

43:37The only one, right?

43:38Grand.

43:39So um I think it's fine for server.

43:42Uh people will say it's not, but hey.

43:44So mute cloud.

43:46Let's uh talking of which, let's move on to the vision.

43:51Yeah.

43:52Now, I have a big question, because you were in the room.

43:55Just and Sharon.

43:57Um yes, good shout.

44:01You were in the room and I just literally this morning, um, before I started work, recorded my

44:10uh reaction to this just this section of the keynote.

44:14And my hunch was that the room was

44:18quiet and wasn't as hyped as some of the South Force staff who were hyping it up in real time as as it was as happening.

44:25Like how did it land in the room?

44:27Because I I I thought I thought it was off a little bit, as in

44:32The room didn't know how to take the re like this this announcement.

44:37So what was your read of it as you were there?

44:39So this is a fourth way of analytics, right?

44:42Yeah, exactly.

44:44Yeah, cold.

44:45But I think it's it's not something you get typed about, right?

44:48Like if you're really honest, like thinking about a concept of here's where we were and here's where we are, it's like

44:54Yeah, let's keep going guys.

44:56Like you you're not gonna go crazy for your job, right?

45:00Yeah, right.

45:01Like you you want to tell me the trends, tell me the trends then and tell me what you're doing to keep up with the trends, which is effectively what it was in Sister

45:08like centerpiece.

45:09Now the the probable killer is no one really talked about it.

45:18Right, like it made a lot of sense.

45:20It made a lot of sense.

45:22I'd follow it.

45:23Like, yeah, cool.

45:24Yeah, makes sense.

45:26Yeah, I yeah, this is a good theory, this is a good vision, yeah

45:30Now what and then and then you can almost follow up with here's what we're doing towards it, which is the product and the features and the almost trying to hit on on the same notes, which is which is fine.

45:39Um but yeah, no, I don't didn't hear it mentioned once again

45:43At the same time, a software vendor's keynotes have journalists in the room who are going to write about Tableau in their customer conference.

45:54And this is what they talked about.

45:56Yeah.

45:58I walked away with a slightly different take, having watched it now five times.

46:03And I only arrived at this take like after the third watch where I was like, wait a minute.

46:08Hmm.

46:09So

46:10The first issue I had with it is, hey, actually, we've been working at this for quite some time.

46:16We're only just about to show it to you.

46:17And by the way, we're gonna announce it at Dreamforce.

46:19So actually, we need your feedback.

46:21So actually, can you sign up today and use it?

46:23Like you know what I mean?

46:24There was like

46:25There's this sort of slow like, you know, revelation of how far down the thought process they are.

46:33And

46:34It did feel like they're bringing us on a little bit late.

46:37And I don't think that's intentional.

46:38I think it's just the way the cookie has crumbled on this particular thing.

46:42They've they've definitely arrived at like tablet.

46:44And let me be absolutely fair and crystal clear on this.

46:48Salesforce inherited a company that had a backlog that was probably as monumental and as long as the history of features that tablets

46:57The ideas for them?

46:58Yeah, like the the the list of features deployed and the backlog is exactly the same length.

47:03And so I think Salesforce took a long hard look at the backlog and

47:06Thought, right, the only real way to kind of make any of this even achievable is to start from scratch.

47:11So I think this is absolutely a valid approach.

47:15It's the only way you're going to solve some of these bigger challenges properly.

47:19But, and there's one big but on the fourth watch I suddenly had a uh oh moment which is is Salesforce trying to rebrand Tableau

47:31As a squarely Salesforce 360 product, right?

47:37And they're doing it in the guise of solving all of these other problems that we've been complaining about a year.

47:43And in doing that, moving it into the platform.

47:45So by moving it, what I'm meaning is the Chrome and the way you experience it will be in the Salesforce 36.

47:52rather than being where it's currently been in, which is a separate product.

47:56I'd say you're about three years too late on that take.

47:59Like if you'd ask me this after TC21

48:05Or maybe 22.

48:07Yeah.

48:08I would have been like, yeah, maybe.

48:09It feels like they're showing the wheel, then it's like the analytics part of the wheel.

48:15And all of this stuff.

48:17And it's like suddenly like all you're seeing is like Salesforce demos and how it integrates well into Salesforce and the Salesforce connectors getting better.

48:24So I think maybe then, however, I think you almost it's building the foundations while servicing that at the same time

48:33So I don't I don't think you're wrong.

48:35I think two things are happening at once and there's almost this recognition of okay yeah you know what Tableau is a fairly big brand with a fairly strong

48:44Yeah.

48:45Following.

48:48I spoke to a PM shortly after the um announcement that Salesforce had bought Tableau.

48:54Yeah.

48:54And I remember I remember them saying, like, you know what?

48:57Like

48:58A lot of people sort of concern, you know, that we're gonna just get swallowed up because it's a big company, just big part, like you know, they they look at MuleSoft as the most recent and most obvious.

49:07Um since then you can look at Slack.

49:10You don't really know that Slack is a Salesforce company, do you?

49:13If I'm honest with you.

49:14Um and in a similar way I think Slack and Tableau are more comparable than Slack and Mulsoft.

49:18But what the his his sort of viewpoint was well

49:21What this really means for for if you're a dev or a PM or someone who's working on the software side rather than the marketing side or the business side or the sales side is

49:30Suddenly features ideas, things you might have wanted to do that after a bad sales cycle, one quarter, never chance, would have been defunded

49:39Suddenly are like, well, you know, here's a roadmap.

49:42Yeah.

49:43Like we have a roadmap, let's stick to we're making the right way forward, right?

49:47And I think this is almost what they've done and

49:49I kind of understand why they started off with the Salesforce parts first.

49:53Like if you're selling this product as part of a Salesforce suite and then it's not very good at connecting to your data, it's like, well, this is a bit embarrassing.

50:01Yeah.

50:02But now it's almost this cool.

50:04We're okay with where we are now, but we're gonna have a bunch of people continuing to deal with that.

50:09Now we've got to let's go back to what this is.

50:12Now the last couple of years we've been listening to

50:14our community, our customers, our people to understand what they really want.

50:18And they want to look at all these forum ideas, as you just talked about.

50:22Just get through them.

50:23Get through dynamic parameters.

50:25Like give us the ability to compose data sources.

50:28between two published data sources.

50:30Right?

50:31Like, yeah, these things are coming, like supercharged Tableau Public.

50:37This was one of the requests that I had.

50:38Like Tableau Public is the best learning platform out there.

50:41And something that's really good.

50:43It's a great brand.

50:44And now it's gonna be it's there's already a great trailhead

50:47like walkthrough on uh like a trailhead mix I guess uh training training thing on trailhead salesforces platform that is fantastic for your starting with Tableau

50:59So like you start you're starting to see this thing where the value of a brand as big as sales was you're getting there.

51:05Like it's really moving in the right direction.

51:07And I'm gonna say it's moving in the right direction.

51:09I'm not saying we're there.

51:10I don't think we're there

51:12You never get there for a tableau.

51:13It's product is the biggest tableau, right?

51:16The the the goalposts are always moving forward and you can show you kinda c consider trying to score in it, right?

51:22Interesting.

51:23I I thought the way their vision of the world of work is what got me thinking about this because it didn't it didn't align with, you know, they talk about people doing like bringing tablets to the places where people were

51:35And when you say that in my head, I'm thinking Monday.

51:38com, Notion, you know, to do it.

51:40I'm thinking all these actual places, teams, yeah, all these actual places that people do work.

51:45But they only showed workday and Slack it.

51:47in in in a very sort of limited context.

51:49And they show this world where people are building custom apps again, very niche activity, right?

51:54And it's it's it's felt like a very forced vision to kind of show this narrative that the like

51:59like the the Salesforce platform and Tableau specifically is this thing that fits everywhere.

52:05And I don't know if that's like an aspiration of this new vision or what they perceive as

52:10the reality of what they're building because the reality of what they're building is that you can't just support, you know, Slack.

52:16You have to support teams and probably Google Meets or

52:19whatever.

52:19Like, you know, yeah, yeah, you have to really come at this and launch with everything out of the game.

52:24Otherwise it doesn't really sell that sort of vision.

52:27But so I challenge that.

52:29the world of work is changing, right?

52:31Like you you don't have really well and and the role of analyst and I I wholeheartedly believe this

52:37Yeah.

52:37Will will just fundamentally change.

52:39And you know, ThorSpot have their dashboards a dead tagline.

52:44What they really mean is no one wants to self-serve.

52:46So we need to do is deliver insight at the point of which they

52:50work so they can get their answers as quickly as possible, which is why AI, GPT, COPA, these sorts of things become really useful because it's almost like

52:59Where I see the where we're gonna meet people where they work, I see that in the flow of their work.

53:04And that's what I mean.

53:05Like what do they do every day?

53:07How do we integrate ourselves so that they know where to look when they have a question

53:11And the analyst will become what I call a knowledge curator.

53:14You've probably got to be talking this a hundred million times now.

53:17But like the librarian of insight.

53:26In the wrong place.

53:28Yeah, I know, right?

53:33They had the analogy down, just not just not the rest of the platform.

53:39Oh gosh.

53:40Yeah.

53:41Um story for another day.

53:42Um

53:43Interesting.

53:44I'm I have mixed feelings about this vision.

53:47I I have to deliberately kind of stay quite tight-lipped because I'm in this again awkward situation, but I think I've seen more of it than I

53:53I should do so to avoid avoid sharing anything too much.

53:56I have to just not talk about it.

53:57But I think it was really interesting to see it in public.

54:00It was really interesting to see it sort of

54:03you know, finally out there.

54:04Kind of a shame you have to wait till Dreamforce to see it and use it.

54:09In like in my video I said, well, the majority of people who could have gone to Dreamforce are probably in that room, which means they've blown their conference budget for

54:17this year, which means they won't be coming to Dreamforce.

54:20But thanks for 35% discount.

54:22Um, you know, that that that might help alleviate that problem.

54:26The other thing is why Dreamforce?

54:28Why, why, why, like, that's only two, like three months away.

54:33So you're saying 12 weeks for feedback on something you've been working on for how long?

54:37Like to really type.

54:39To use an Apple analogy, do you announce the new Mac OS at WWDC or do you do it at a Mac event?

54:54But in the Salesforce analogy, the Tableau audience aren't turning up to Dreamforce to hear about Tableau.

55:01Does that make sense?

55:02Like the Tableau audience are turning up to Tableau conference to hear about Tableau.

55:06Like it's a slightly it's it's a it's an exception to that to that to that rule.

55:10So like you're gonna be

55:11Here's here's the here's the risk.

55:20No one turns up to Dreamforce from a Tableau perspective.

55:23And so you're doing the Tableau keynote to basically an empty room, like that doesn't get it, that will see everything on screen and say, oh, this is cool, but won't be hyped, won't be passionate.

55:34And and things will be off.

55:36And it's not gonna resonate with a Salesforce crowd as strongly as it's gonna resonate with the tablet audience, you know, whether it's good or bad, right?

55:42Like

55:43Now now imagine imagine that keynote is full of customers.

55:48Not not not community members, not

55:51The front twenty reality.

55:52Actual customers, yeah, yeah, yeah.

55:54Real ambassadors not, yeah, yeah.

55:56No recognition program.

55:58And then imagine if they go nuts for it.

56:01Well, I think they're like, yes, this is actually what we really need.

56:05That you've got decision makers in that crowd.

56:07You've got people who are really

56:10Core Salesforce customers who are now suddenly like, yeah, we keep getting the pitch this thing Tableau by our Salesforce sales rep.

56:17Don't know what this biz, but hey, I'm a dream force.

56:20I'll go to Tableau Keynote and see what what it's about.

56:23And then as a senior decision maker, you're like, actually, yeah, yeah, this kind this kind of makes sense.

56:29Uh, you know, fourth wave analytics and then you know, delivering data to the person in the flow.

56:35That's kind of what we're trying to do actually in part of my five-year plan as a CDO.

56:40Yeah.

56:40So again, that this is it's a really you make a good point.

56:45But I think you you're more likely to get you'll get honest feedback from the Tableau Conference.

56:51Let let let me be clear

56:53No CDO is going to the Tableau keynote.

56:56They're going to the AI keynote, right?

56:58Like they like all the CDOs as you know uh Ryan put it up on screen going hey

57:05You know, like 90% of CDOs are like worried about the use of AI in their business.

57:11Like every single data officer, every single executive, every everyone in C level is going to

57:17All these conferences to understand how they can capitalize on the latest technology, they don't see Tableau as part of that narrative, not yet.

57:25They haven't seen anything to show them the tableau is that part of that leading edge narrative, right?

57:29Um

57:31And so I just think like in a session in a in a conference that's full with competition of things you can go to and do, like it's just a hard ask.

57:40But yeah, maybe I'm being skeptical.

57:42Maybe we need to

57:45Wait and see, as it were.

57:46Yeah, yeah, there you go.

57:47When the dream when when when Dream Force comes around, we we can do a little little debrief on that one as well.

57:53Yeah.

57:54Right.

57:54Let's uh let's spend another five minutes closing off.

57:57But but first, I'm gonna ask you a tough question.

58:00Out of ten, what would you give a Tableau Conference?

58:03Uh

58:05You know what?

58:07I'd say overall this this one was an eight or nine.

58:09Like they would like I think my best experience was New Orleans.

58:13Mm-hmm.

58:14I think the only thing that got New Orleans a nine, not a ten, was the size of the convention center.

58:20Right.

58:21What makes it an eight, not like a six?

58:23What what what's like the top thing that really sort of pulls that score up

58:27The conversations were a bit richer, I think.

58:30Yeah.

58:32And I think there was a strong contingent of

58:36fresh ideas, uh a positive outlook overall.

58:40I think the the the feeling in the room was was a lot better

58:45And hey, m maybe it's just because you're not in Vegas.

58:48Yeah.

58:50That's one thing.

58:51Yeah.

58:51Yeah.

58:52You're not in a um you're not going into the strata.

58:55Well, yeah.

58:57But yeah, it's not recycled air and dry desertness and stuff.

59:02And then what would make it a tent?

59:04That's the final bit.

59:07Great question.

59:11Getting getting giving devs a bit more of a spotlight.

59:15Like that there was almost this feeling of

59:18Half the room and like in the and again, this is something you probably didn't spot it in in person is Devs on Stage was great, but because the keynote overran and people wanted to get to sessions

59:29And make sure you got there.

59:31People started leaving, yeah.

59:32I saw that it was.

59:34I saw someone walking past.

59:36I was like, come on.

59:37I was like, sit down.

59:42At a rate of not like you know you the keynote ends and you know a look behind me like whoa this room was very full and that is very empty

59:50I think giving giving that its own sort of space, and even if it's a small space, it's okay that if not everyone goes, but giving the space to breathe.

60:00for those developers to showcase what what's coming now and next.

60:04It would be really cool.

60:05And doesn't need to be long.

60:07It doesn't need to be long, but I think it needs its own space to sort of

60:11allow for demos and they almost if that rolls then into really nicely like and then over here if you then stay in this keynote room we have some demo stations

60:21to give you feed immediate feedback and thoughts to the other people.

60:26Yeah, exactly.

60:27Make staying like um a privilege.

60:30Exclusive, like a privilege.

60:32Yeah.

60:32Yeah yeah.

60:32Yeah, and I think I think that worked really well.

60:35Um other than that usual stuff, like I'm a vegetarian, the lot I was going across the street for tacos, which is an issue.

60:43But when you hang the same side three days in a row, kind of interesting.

60:48So again, those are these are just like conference.

60:51Conference, yeah, impossible to solve.

60:54Perfect.

60:54Perfect conference does not exist apart from maybe a concert.

60:58But it was good.

60:59Like the layout data village, the it was easy to get around to rooms, sessions were well managed.

61:04I I didn't ever feel like I couldn't get into a session

61:07that I didn't expect to be overbooked or anything like that.

61:10Yeah.

61:10The app was really good.

61:12Like I actually quite liked using it.

61:16Yeah, yeah.

61:16Um great feedback.

61:21Great feedback.

61:22I like I'd give it a seven out of ten from a remote perspective because I think they did more of an effort than last year.

61:27Last year I would have given it a five or a

61:28Six.

61:29Yeah, this year it's a strong seven because like thirty percent of the sessions, are either the sessions you actually want to watch and need to watch, like if

61:36If you were to miss anything, those 50 sessions they picked felt like the ones you didn't want to miss.

61:41And they also felt like they tell enough about what they want you to know and going into the future that you can kind of get all the rest from other people.

61:47for so um that was they did they did meetups this year as well so I hosted a sports meetup and I think the nice thing about that is it was very led like there was one tableau person one non-Tableau

61:58person that was leading a meetup.

62:00It worked really well because it just got people together.

62:04Like there was no agenda.

62:06But you could throw up some flyers and run activities.

62:08if you want to we did a little quiz and then we just got a few questions to discuss in groups of three or four.

62:15And by the end of it we were like, we're not going to close it, we're not going to say disappear.

62:19We're just going to say hang around.

62:20Because it was this like really nice community space.

62:23And when when the hell the meetup after us turned up, like they just cracked on and then people stayed for that because they were like, this is interesting as well.

62:31Um so I think that was a really nice way of making connections

62:34Um you know historically they've done things like braind dates, which worked well.

62:37I think something new like a just a generic, if you're interested in public sector, if you're interested in healthcare.

62:46Or if like the one that they which I think nailed worked really well was a new me breakfast.

62:51So if you've never been to Tableau Conference, which is a lot of people this year by the way.

62:55Yeah.

62:55A lot of the room was very first time conference.

62:59Yeah.

62:59Yeah, which is fantastic.

63:01They got to understand what they should do, what they shouldn't do, all these like things at a breakfast that was put on.

63:07That was really good.

63:08I thought that that was really nice touch.

63:10Good.

63:11All round great.

63:12All round great.

63:14All right then.

63:15Yeah, let's call it a day there.

63:16I've been going for an hour.

63:17That's uh slightly long.

63:20But hey, we're we're back and we're committed, right?

63:22So that's what you get.

63:24extra chat to make up for all the years that we literally years we didn't do one.

63:29So um uh really really stopped me at TC and said they were happy that the podcast was back

63:35I know right.

63:35It's I I assume this is because you've had you've gained celebrity status.

63:40Um if you end up at TC next to your Tim, you're gonna get stopped for many a cell

63:46I think my mission for TC is to come as one of those undercover people, right?

63:50Like I'll go go um

63:53Go into these uh fancy dress shops uh or something like that.

63:56Get like a get like a makeover, a different wig on and just see if I can just make it three conference without anyone noticing I'm there.

64:03I think that would be great.

64:05Yeah, no, I did miss conference.

64:07I I I I'm not gonna lie.

64:08I think I I um have not been to conference since before COVID.

64:12Yeah.

64:12That was the last one.

64:13I went to

64:15the conference in Las Vegas.

64:16Yeah.

64:17Then I went to New York with uh my now wife and then yeah, have not been abroad since.

64:23So yeah.

64:24It's been a really really, really long time.

64:27Kids have happened in that time and a bunch of other

64:29think so.

64:30God, I think it will have been what year was that?

64:3221?

64:34No.

64:35Early 2020.

64:36No, it was

64:39The previous conference in Las Vegas was over 19.

64:42Yeah.

64:44Wow.

64:45I've not been to conference since 2019.

64:48We're in 2020.

64:50Four twenty-five.

64:52Jeez.

64:53That's that's a long time.

64:55Didn't feel like five years, but now you say that I'm like, yeah, it's that COVID thing, right?

65:00There's time disappeared somewhere.

65:01Yeah, like two years just gone

65:04Right.

65:04Okay.

65:05Let's let's call it a day there.

65:07Um yeah.

65:08If if you're listening, you want to know where to find the podcast.

65:10By now you've probably figured out it's available in the podcast app you're listening to it on.

65:14Um also on YouTube, we've had 300 people listen to episodes.

65:19So YouTube went from nothing to being the biggest platform we've got an audience on.

65:23So um that is that is immediate upgrade.

65:26So thank you to everyone watching on YouTube.

65:28Um if you want to sort of uh ask questions by also by all means do so in the comments.

65:33We'll we'll both be sort of checking it out there and

65:35And um yeah.

65:35We'll catch you in a couple of weeks for the next one.

65:37Thanks for listening.

65:38I'll see you soon.

65:39Take care.