S3 E9: Byte: Tableau Conference 2020 roundup

0:00Hello and welcome to another episode of Datum.

0:03Ravi, how are you doing?

0:04I'm good.

0:05I've I've moved my office around, so I'm kind of jarred.

0:07I sort of rotated it last night in a

0:10In a moment of could this fit in and down the way?

0:12And then I did it and I'm just gonna leave it for a few days and see how how I feel about it.

0:16I did notice you're facing me slightly from an angle.

0:18Just look, we're just using FaceTime for everyone who's listening.

0:21And he's looking slightly

0:23Differently.

0:24Normally you used to look the other way, basically.

0:26Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:27Yeah, right.

0:27Yeah, it it's all rotated backwards.

0:29I've now got my window in front of me, so I get the natural light on me.

0:32I think it works nicely with the um overhead lighting, but let's not talk about decor.

0:36Are you optimizing for your webcam?

0:39Um in a way, yeah, I am lighting to your face.

0:42Yeah, exactly.

0:42Exactly.

0:43It's gotta be that natural light

0:44It's amazing how everyone in their home has basically changed their layout to just glorify the window.

0:50The window is the greatest source of light we all have.

0:53Yeah, no, absolutely.

0:54It's always fun like seeing everyone's like um what's the word?

0:57Uh make makeshift like uh standing desk or adjust their height, like putting the putting the screens on a book and all

1:06Yeah, it's a little bit interesting.

1:08People have to make best uh best do of what they have, right?

1:11Absolutely.

1:12Absolutely.

1:13Good work.

1:14So we're back after a double whammy of uh live streams last week.

1:18week.

1:19How do you find conference?

1:20Let's start with that.

1:22How do you find conference?

1:23I mean conference I feel it was the same in many, many ways.

1:27Like I still still felt exhausted.

1:29after every day for different reasons.

1:31So I wasn't on my feet all day and with bright lights and air conditioning.

1:35Yeah.

1:35Um but it was more about you know the screen fatigue more than anything

1:39Um I really enjoyed it in in in a in a different way.

1:42I think you know there's there's plenty of places to talk about the conference experience and reflections and all that, but I think the meat of it

1:48which is what we got stuck into, uh, was really eye-opening, I thought.

1:52Yeah, yeah.

1:53It was very good.

1:54Like I I actually found it um refreshing because exactly that I I had the comfort of being at home.

1:59Uh

2:00I you know, I optimized for conference.

2:02I had a a screen which just had conference running basically all along.

2:06And then um I was actually doing a bit of consulting at the same time in in

2:10on some of the days.

2:10So I basically just did the American conference where I basically did a conference from five until about midnight.

2:16So I watched all the broadcasts in the American time zone, even though it was actually really hard to do that feedback from

2:21next year tableau.

2:22But yes, um, you know, it was it was probably the better way to do it.

2:25There weren't any spoilers the next morning when I got up um because I was watching it in the right times.

2:30as it were.

2:31And yeah, it was really good.

2:32Definitely a lot to learn from.

2:34I think um it felt like a lot of it was pre-recorded.

2:37All the way to Iron Vase, which

2:39felt a little bit uh not ideal.

2:41I mean you could tell Iron Viz was pre-recorded and yet they had live voting.

2:46So what they what they had to have done is they had to have recorded multiple endings and then played the correct ending.

2:51based on the phone vote.

2:54The way you know it's recorded is because um the uh the cues, the visual cues just would not have worked had they all been in different places.

3:05And also Or it's just a sick producer, just someone who's just got a massive desk and just like pressing buttons, swapping cameras.

3:11Right, right.

3:12I mean typically something like that, what you'd actually do is you get everyone in a studio in one place.

3:16Then you'd live stream it from that, right?

3:18But there's no way you can live stream from seven, eight different places at the same time.

3:23Across the world as well.

3:24Across the world to all of us as well.

3:26So it had to be in pre-recorded and basically

3:28Uh good bit of video mixing live, play the right outcome once you got the votes in.

3:33I don't think many people from the UK voted though, because you know, we just don't do tax voting.

3:37That's not something we do.

3:38Like, right.

3:38You normally download an app if you do this kind of thing.

3:41So that maybe sort of hindered the UK contestants a little bit.

3:44But well I mean I mean, you know, in in terms of the actual vote counting, it counts for a little bit.

3:48It doesn't count for the most, right?

3:49The most is coming from the judges and

3:51And I think I think it i it I I you know if we if we're gonna talk about this w you know m in my opinion, the safest Viz one.

3:59Um you know it it's it's a really good viz.

4:01I I I it was a bit of me.

4:03It was a really good

4:05clean, simple viz, that's easy to follow.

4:07So I I really liked it.

4:08I know a few other people had different opinions, but um no I I think I'd agree with you.

4:12I think the my my my insider knowledge of recording my session

4:17is yeah it was recorded.

4:18Um so we had a hard window to to fit everything in.

4:23As well as the the panel that I was on uh that was also pre-recorded.

4:26So

4:27I think in order to get the the advert breaks and make sure that people in the right place minimize dropping of people, you have to do bits and pieces like that.

4:36Which I I think I'm okay with that.

4:37I think I'm okay with that in the COVID world

4:39I mean m my conference overall was just brain dates and doctor sessions as well as keynotes, that's it.

4:43Right.

4:43Uh I don't think I didn't catch any of the sessions really.

4:46Um

4:47Well or or at least I didn't really pay attention to any.

4:49Um because I it it in but like I said in that way it was the same as conference because I think me and you do a similar thing where we don't go to many sessions at all.

4:57Yeah.

4:57Um

4:58So yeah, it was good.

4:59It was it was good.

5:00I enjoyed that part.

5:01How do you find the the streaming of the keynote?

5:04The watch along.

5:05The the our live stream was good fun.

5:07I actually really enjoyed it.

5:09Um it was really

5:10It was really challenging because uh you know with with these things we well I think sometimes it can come across look looking like we we sort of planned this and it was really organized.

5:19No, we kind of agreed to really wasn't like a day before.

5:23A day before, then we we firmed it fifteen minutes before.

5:28I spent the previous day basically making sure that it was actually something we could do.

5:32And but I didn't do enough research because clearly when we started the livestream I had like

5:36a completely different voice because my microphone was in the wrong was in the wrong frequency.

5:40Rick Rick Ross over here just like whoa who knows it might be the same issue with this podcast.

5:45I haven't I didn't actually check

5:47So that that'll be quite funny.

5:50That'll be quite funny if that's the case.

5:51I'll put the episode out either way.

5:53Um and yeah, that was really good fun.

5:55I really enjoyed it.

5:56Two t two two nights.

5:58I wish we'd almost done a third one.

6:00We should have actually done Iron Biz a little bit.

6:01I think um I I th I think if if I'd known Einviz would have had so many pauses and silences and uh I don't want to say cheap gags but sort of Einviz gags.

6:10Yeah I think we would have done it.

6:12I I I would have been more than happy to do it because I think

6:14It would have been the alternative commentary right as in like, okay, yeah, yeah, that we're just getting the overview, blah, blah.

6:18Exactly.

6:19And again, if you want to actually listen to it, don't listen to our uh watch along because we are just gonna talk over it.

6:25Have it open in another window

6:27Yeah.

6:27So that it was really good fun.

6:29I thoroughly enjoyed it.

6:30Definitely do it again um next year.

6:32Uh I'm sure I'm assuming next year will still be remote.

6:36So um

6:36Yeah, at least I think m most people will be remote, even if let's say conference does have a physical presence, I don't think everyone will be comfortable travelling to it.

6:43So there must be some sort of live uh

6:45element to it.

6:46So that looking really forward to that.

6:48It was an interesting one for features though, wasn't it?

6:50Because I think if you weren't paying attention, you'd think there wasn't much announced, right?

6:53And I think

6:54This is it.

6:55Dare I say, I think a lot of people maybe walked away feeling underwhelmed.

6:59Yeah, and and in reality.

7:03Yeah, I think there's so many good little things uh that quality of life features.

7:07There wasn't I think the thing that people didn't didn't get was a massive

7:12flagship feature.

7:13You know, last year there was there was two almost right.

7:15You had dynamic parameters and there was something else as well.

7:19And you you just had two blockbuster features and it was just like data model a proper

7:24Days model right, the crowd went wild sort of sort of situation.

7:28Whereas this one was it was back to back.

7:31You didn't really have time to absorb and react.

7:33I think there was a couple of things that we missed as well.

7:35Um when we were recapping at the end of the second watch along.

7:38Right.

7:38But in general I think the the features were geared towards the direction and it's one of these things where I think the first conference I went to

7:46I put out a thing internally when I was at the information live being like, hey, what what's the best way to absorb a keynote?

7:53And I think it was Craig who said, what you gotta listen for is not

7:56what they're saying, but like listening between the lines almost, like seeing.

7:59Listening between the lines, right?

8:03And what they actually mean in terms of direction.

8:05Right.

8:05And you know, if for example, spending entire what, five minutes talking about Tableau C RM.

8:09Yeah.

8:09Uh tak

8:10uh usurping Einstein was a big deal.

8:13It talks about direction.

8:14Prep in browser, a big deal.

8:16We need to think about direction.

8:17Yeah.

8:18Rail level security again in the web.

8:20Yeah.

8:20All of these things they're they're saying different things.

8:23Yeah.

8:23The whole conference was basically just like in the web.

8:26In the web

8:27In the web, in the web, in the web, in the web, in the web, in the web Are you getting it yet?

8:35Are you getting it yet?

8:37The entire the entire desktop experience in the web.

8:41In the web.

8:42Yeah, exactly.

8:43You want a new feature?

8:44Where is it coming?

8:45In the web.

8:46In the web.

8:48They should do that next year.

8:49That should be the thing.

8:50Right.

8:51That is just the whole conference next year

8:53And so yeah, absolutely, if you didn't read between the lines, actually what this keynote was about was we are moving to a world where you just experience Tableau through the browser and here's the key thing.

9:04didn't really say it in the conference, but we are going to provide you that experience whether you want it on premise or in our cloud.

9:11We'll do it for you.

9:12It will make it easy for you to manage, monitor, and look after.

9:16And by the way, if you want the creme de la creme of uh this experience, there's different tiers of involvement and you know licensing that you can

9:24have as a viewer creator whatever or as a server admin who wants a data management add-on and you know all this other goodness and and and so on and so forth.

9:31So

9:32really sort of driving that message home.

9:34No, exactly.

9:35And I think the the really interesting part for me was there's a lot of the a lot of the sub for example one of the sub features that was uh misconstrued a bit was

9:44Giving users the ability to do custom schedules.

9:46Right.

9:47And like you just t you just heard every cyber admin just burst into tears and like throwing things around.

9:53But in reality, what the feature is is for site admins to set custom schedules, right?

9:57It was users of schedules, not you know, the the same permissions exist where you a normal role within a tablet server can't set their own schedule.

10:10a tablet online where you can't take tables, right?

10:13So it's and and this and this is it.

10:15It's one of these features where you're like if you again if you're listening close enough, you start to notice, hang on a second.

10:20Yeah.

10:21This isn't for on premise.

10:22This is for online.

10:23Yeah and again, where where is online hosted?

10:25It's in the cloud.

10:26Which what what is the cloud?

10:27In the browser.

10:28Yeah on the web.

10:29Hundred percent.

10:31I think next year is the first year where the best Tableau experience is no longer on-prem tablet.

10:35It's entirely in Tableau's own cloud.

10:38Exactly.

10:38No, it is.

10:39No, it's it's definitely true.

10:40Look at Tableau Online today.

10:42I think in the Tableau Online instances I've had access to, including my own test instance, it's always been up.

10:48It's never been down, right?

10:50Like true.

10:50Fact n fact number one.

10:52Fact number two, I have access to everything current.

10:55All the new features are available to me instantly

10:57So again, in terms of user experience and in terms of my user experience, it's the best place to be.

11:02Next year, prepping the browser, uh, spaces, all of these innovations are targeted.

11:08at the browser.

11:09And on-prem services simply can't scale up their resources to meet these new features.

11:13Whereas something like Tableau Online will be able to just bring that online instantly for everyone without worrying about the resource.

11:20I think you'll get on-prem server admins now starting to complain about, ah, but what is the impact on all these resources?

11:25Well, in in the real world, you don't have to worry about that because in a cloud-centric model, you just scale it up and scale it down on an as-need basis

11:33So the I mean and the the the thing that always always always comes back is performance right like when I when I when you talk to the Joe blog's

11:42Jane Doe, average Tableau user.

11:44Right.

11:45I'm not talking Front Five Euros Rose Conference.

11:47I'm talking the generic business user who is just building

11:51Tables, bars, pies that have filter actions, and the tableau normal color palette, and they're getting their insights.

11:58Now when when they come to you and say my my dashboard's slow when you're building a browser, what what can an admin do?

12:04Nothing

12:05Right.

12:05It's it's those things that I'm really intrigued to see how they solve is performance challenges when you're in browser.

12:09And I think I've seen this with a few other tools like you know, you've got your your your Power BI in browser, you've got even Tableau in browser currently

12:17Uh you've got your Google Data Studio, uh, QuickSite.

12:20And when you play with these, you you start to notice lag when you get to a certain volume of data or a certain thing you're trying to do in terms of compute power.

12:29Now Tableau in itself, under the hood

12:31is an in-memory tool.

12:33So when you're saying I've got multiple concurrent users working with big data in memory, how does that scale?

12:39Right.

12:39And I think that's what a lot of people start to consider.

12:41Now

12:42Again, the fundamental question underneath all of this is how many people are using Tableau correctly anyway?

12:49And by correctly I mean

12:50to its full potential where you're exploring and you're the the tableau flow is yours to own.

12:55Yeah.

12:56Most people aren't.

12:57I agree, yeah.

12:58The the pyramid of users of creator, explorer, viewer

13:01is segmented that way because that is genuinely the the consumer triangle within Tableau, right?

13:07Mm-hmm.

13:08Yeah.

13:09And

13:10It's it's interesting because I was I was I was gonna well I wasn't going to I am going to push back on the question about performance which is why should it matter?

13:17Why should it matter to the user the performance of the thing they're building, right?

13:21Uh like when you get an iPhone, you don't wonder whether the camera is gonna be able to take photos fast enough.

13:27You just trust that it does and it just works.

13:29It's it's apt to it's up to Apple to make sure that the overall experience

13:34Works the way it does.

13:35Yeah, yeah.

13:36Right.

13:36And so this this sort of perspective where you know server admins always want to ask about the performance.

13:41Well

13:42In real terms, why are they even wasting their time worrying about performance?

13:45That shouldn't be something they worry about.

13:47What they should be worrying about is sort of st becoming the stewards of the platform, promoting best practice.

13:52And actually that's a challenge that Tableau should take away from server admin to free them up to do things that they find sort of more pressing.

13:59If you go to, you know, other products that we use day in, day out.

14:03You you don't have someone at Google wondering about, you know, whether Google search um you know is gonna be able to perform.

14:10Is Google first search gonna be fast enough?

14:12Exactly, right?

14:13Like that is just inherent inherently part of the, you know, you and I don't worry about that when we go in and start typing.

14:18True.

14:19Uh the server admin for Google also doesn't worry about it because his platform scales up and down to meet the demand so the performance is always suitable.

14:26And that is the promise of the cloud, right?

14:29Actually, that question goes away because when the computer is so cheap and it can scale up and down to meet the performance that's required, that's what matters, not

14:37Having a capped level of resources, then asking, oh, given these resources, what's the performance?

14:42Well, of course it's gonna be limited, right?

14:44Yeah.

14:45And that's where Tableau Mind really comes in.

14:47And and I think I think I think this this comes back to some of the bits where you know you're talking about I think I think there's good the the pushback you're gonna get when everything moves online is gonna be from the purists.

14:58Right.

14:58We talked, I think we've talked to You mean the old hats.

15:01Uh one of the devs.

15:02Yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:03We've talked to one of the devs.

15:04I think it was Philippos we had a chat to.

15:06Right.

15:06And we were talking about the generations.

15:08Right.

15:09Right.

15:09You've got your pre-eight

15:12Crew, that's you, right?

15:13Pre-A.

15:14Yeah.

15:14Yeah.

15:15Then then you got me, which is like nine I I'm I'd say I'm nine to tw ten five.

15:20Right, you've got nine nine to ten five is the second batch of generation.

15:25There's a there's a group between uh version

15:28Pre-8.

15:29I think it's actually pre-8.

15:32Yeah.

15:32Okay, I'll give you that.

15:33There's pre-eight, then there's eight to ten, then there's ten to twenty, then there's twenty to today.

15:39Yeah, yeah.

15:39So I th I think I think 2018 won.

15:42Yeah.

15:42No, wait, it's not even 2018-1, it's 2018-2 because you had the hop to TSM.

15:46That's right.

15:53Right.

15:53So so the new the new day of data where you've got the new roles and all of these different things as well.

15:59And and then the next jump is twenty twenty dot one when you get the data model.

16:03Right.

16:03Correct, yeah, yeah.

16:04And and and these are your four generations of users.

16:07Now for the you like this this is where you get the it's is when people wistfully say, oh yeah, but you I remember when I had to do what d LODs it with table calves

16:17Yeah, but you don't anymore.

16:18Don't ask.

16:18Why are you telling me this?

16:19Yeah, exactly.

16:19It doesn't matter.

16:20It's much better and more performance.

16:22In fact, if you took today's tableau and gave it the feature set of like

16:27four years ago it could probably run the nastiest table on the planet like X hundred times faster, right?

16:33Yeah yeah and and I think that

16:35When when we talk about those generations, firstly I just want to make the point that you know that most new users will not care whether their browser first or their desktop first.

16:42They just want to get to insight.

16:44Done.

16:44Yeah.

16:44Right.

16:45Yeah.

16:45Number one done.

16:46And number two

16:48The the users who will actually migrate will just get used to it, right?

16:52And I think this is where Tableau forgets how good it is.

16:55like them as a as as a as a company.

16:58Yeah.

16:58Where you you know is the best in class exploration tool and delivery tool.

17:03You know, they they I think was it um

17:06Francois mentioned this thing that Anna Casey came up with, which is data is a team sport, right?

17:10And the other the other catch was broader and deeper, which is tableau is

17:15almost as close to a end-to-end platform as can be in the current world without getting into computing.

17:21Right.

17:22If you're just talking about data analytics

17:24end-to-end tableau is there.

17:25And data as a team sort means that you you're not just servicing the first five rows, the power users, the the pre-9 crowd.

17:32You're servicing everyone, right?

17:34You're trying to make it as accessible as possible through features like Ask Data, Explain Data.

17:37Yeah.

17:38And suddenly the problem doesn't become how do we compete with your Power BIs and all of these in the space.

17:45The problem becomes how do I

17:47Empower my users to ask better questions.

17:50Correct.

17:51Right.

17:51And get answers.

17:53And get answers.

17:55Exactly.

17:56And and

17:57The the tough thing as well.

17:59The tough thing I I always I think we get too drawn in on sort of how can we make

18:06How can we build better dashboards, right?

18:07And that's not actually what we're building.

18:09What we're actually building is how can you make it easy to find the correct answer to any question that the user has, right?

18:15Correct.

18:15But too often as users and authors we get drawn into this question about better

18:19dashboards.

18:20And actually, if you were to rebuild Tableau today from that perspective, you actually wouldn't technically need an author, right?

18:26That's sort of going full circle to something we spoke about earlier on, right?

18:30Like if actually all you needed was answers, then why do you need an author?

18:33And it goes back to the point where you're talking about, which is it's a team sport.

18:37Authors are good at bringing together business sort of internal intelligence about a data set.

18:42Together with the data literacy of that company and packaging it in a way that's sort of amenable and sort of uh digestible.

18:48And then when there's a problem with that, there's actually a person you can interact with rather than just a statistic that's been thrown at you.

18:54So this is quite an interesting topic, and I really want to dig into it because it was it was one of the ones that I came up with during uh it was a brain data hosted, uh which was off a thread

19:05That would send me on all sorts of directions, which was if you build a if you if you end up building a dashboard, you failed as an analytics provider.

19:17Because the second you build a dashboard,

19:19Yeah.

19:20You're saying I don't know I don't know the answer, but I think this is what you want.

19:24Right.

19:24You've not you've not gotten deep enough into the user requirements.

19:27Right.

19:27I don't know if you had any thoughts on that.

19:29Yes.

19:31The the the tough thing with that is that I think there's a there's always a process that's required to get to the right place, right?

19:38And

19:39That that journey is is actually a really useful one.

19:42So let me clarify this because I've just found I've just found the tweet.

19:45So it's it's by a guy called um Jared Spool.

19:47Yeah uh JM Spool on Twitter.

19:49Uh dashboards are often what customers ask for, they're rarely what customers need.

19:53If you're building a dashboard, it's likely your user research wasn't finished.

19:57And I was just like, yes.

20:00Right?

20:00Yes.

20:02The thing you're trying to do isn't build a catch all solution.

20:05The thing you're trying to do, and we've talked about this before, right?

20:08Is trying to meet the user at the point where they have the question.

20:13Right.

20:13Right

20:14You're trying to meet them at the point of delivery.

20:16Like I I think the the the interesting thing here is a dashboard.

20:18If you think about a dashboard on a car, yeah.

20:20Why does revolutions per minute on every like car built from like 1990 to last two years

20:26Why is it so big on the dashboard?

20:28Right.

20:28And the fuel icon is so small.

20:29And the engine oil, right?

20:31You've got all these four things that are standard on a car dashboard.

20:34Right.

20:34But for most people, all they care about is how fast they're going.

20:37how much fuel they've got left and oil and and just an alert saying something's wrong.

20:41Right.

20:42Now modern modern cars are doing this a bit better with digital dashboards, right?

20:44Where you can show you can customize it.

20:47to highlight the bit you want.

20:48Maybe you want your satnav there.

20:49Maybe you want your speedo there, right?

20:51But that this entire concept of a dashboard is a fix is still a fixed piece of analysis, no matter how exploratory you make it.

20:59Yeah.

20:59Yeah, exactly.

21:00And yeah, that analogy is a good one actually because you know in an automatic car why is the rev counter so prominent?

21:06You don't need to know because you're you've got an aut

21:07Automatic car.

21:10Yeah, exact exactly right.

21:11You don't need to know what the rev count is doing to get a visual cue of when to change gears, unless it can do manual changes.

21:17But in a fully automatic car, there's just no need for that.

21:20And an electric car, you guess a speedo is the most prominent thing.

21:23And actually you just see a speedo, you don't you get it, you get some sort of visualization to tell you how much effort the car is putting, but it's not a continuous scale.

21:30It's just it's just like a a like a

21:33almost like a progress bar as it were like here's zero effort and here's a hundred percent effort right um and that is an interesting sort of direction we're going I think the dashboard will just completely disappear in the car because you won't no longer need

21:45to be part of that process and going back to businesses like are we doing that process of trying to figure out okay we're just giving people dashboards but actually what if we just gave people the answer that they were asking

21:56Like if if the simple question is what was the most uh popular item this month?

22:01What if we just told them oh biscuits and didn't give them the number behind that?

22:04Would that do exactly and and it will, right?

22:09Because

22:15For me, you know, in the industry I'm now working, the point is never

22:21Can you build me something?

22:22The point is, can you get me the answer to this question to tell me if I'm right or wrong in my analysis?

22:27Right.

22:27Right.

22:27Anything I do will not, I don't want to say will not drive analysis because it will, but what it will what it more often than not does is augments it.

22:35And in in business that's the same, right?

22:37Now the the thing that I've got is everything's too late, right?

22:40Everything is reactionary, everything's in such a short space of time because it's elite sport.

22:44Now in reality

22:46What you have in business there's another thing I I coined and um I've this is one thing I've always wanted of like skeleton to plug into this which is everyone is

22:55Questions rich, but time poor, right?

22:58Right.

22:58And that is that is my thing against self-serve.

23:01No one actually wants to self-serve.

23:03Self-service is a thing where you're just saying, stop annoying me, go annoy the computer

23:10Go do one, basically.

23:11Here's your buffet.

23:13Pick out what you actually want to eat, right?

23:15Right.

23:15So

23:16So no one actually wants to self-serve.

23:17So what you really want to do is just reduce the time to insight.

23:20And that and what you just said is exactly correct.

23:23Right.

23:23Right.

23:23Yeah.

23:24What you want to be able to do is give the user choice

23:26Right, everything comes down to this notion of choice.

23:29You want to say you want to find out what what we're selling the most, it's biscuits.

23:32You want to find out why.

23:33Here's the data, right?

23:35Or here's the start of your analysis.

23:37And then it's like the thing you want isn't so much

23:40Um the answer, it's here's the answer, but also here's me directing you and taking you on a journey to educate you on how to ask the question you're trying to answer.

23:50How do you articulate that?

23:51Yeah.

23:52No a hundred percent.

23:53And uh you you kinda get the impression that um no Tableau's starting to think about this, you know, collections

24:00uh spaces, giving people places where these things can go, metrics, you know, just having numbers that basically answer certain questions.

24:07You're starting to see that actually they're getting this, right?

24:10So that that technically means that people like myself and you are out of a job because what not

24:14you because you build you you're doing something sort of bigger but me someone who builds a dashboard technically I should be seeing the writing on the wall here and pivoting to you know being a server admin

24:25I am.

24:25But yeah, you know, you get my point.

24:27I shouldn't be so focused on building dashboards and I should be more focused on building the platform on which this runs on, right?

24:33But I th I think I think you know that there's still a place for that there is always a place for data visualization

24:38Right.

24:38But I think what needs what what the next big leap in this space is is augmented analytics.

24:45Right.

24:45Is that the ability to create I don't want to say self-service augmented analytics, but

24:50It's it's not really self-selling, it's just easier, right?

24:53Like where where Tableau made it so easy to build charts and iterate and fail fast and try again and build.

24:58And it still is, again, like we said, the best in-class tool at doing that

25:03Right.

25:03What what what is the next big leap is improving and bringing these things closer to home.

25:09And and that's happening, right?

25:11Tableau's

25:12Realize that you know they added comments.

25:14No one actually uses comments.

25:15Therefore, let's let let's let you collaborate where you collaborate.

25:20Let's push this thing, these things to Slack.

25:22Yeah.

25:22And make that easy to do.

25:24Yeah, and br make notifications more prominent.

25:26Let you take actions on those notifications.

25:28Uh update the comment window a little bit.

25:31Let's make you let's find it ways to make it useful rather than just giving up because we didn't deliver this sort of version of what you were looking for.

25:38for.

25:39And the other thing is is we are moving to a world where things need to be more integrated.

25:44And actually Tableau has to start welcoming aspects of itself to other platforms.

25:48platforms, you know.

25:50No, no, this is my favorite thing, right?

25:52This this is this is possibly one of the most interesting developments that I noticed last year.

25:58And it was um

25:59It was trying to understand more about how metrics works under the hood, right?

26:04And what you realize when you start looking is it's JavaScript.

26:08Yeah.

26:09Right.

26:09It it is a JavaScript element within Tableau Server.

26:13And you're look then you're like, hang on a second.

26:15If if they're building a tool that is so smooth and ready to use as a really nice static visual experience.

26:23that is metrics that is able to pull from data within the server, be able to set permission, all these different things you can do.

26:30And you're suddenly taking something outside and putting it in here and creating a rich experience around it.

26:34That is within the Tableau ecosystem.

26:36It's better than some of what we have as well.

26:38Correct.

26:39And then you start thinking, well, if you're doing that, what else can I do?

26:43What else can I do that starts to augment this?

26:45Now

26:45What Tableau did that was quite smart was create the this element of extensions.

26:49Now there's all obviously the most server admins in the global enterprise will never turn on extensions because of backdoors.

26:56uh because you have a kitty gif and then it's dealing your data in the background, right?

26:59That's that if you put that to one side and just think about

27:04Extensions as an element as a tool to bring something outside of Tableau in to allow this integrated experience as well as, as you said, taking the Tableau experience, putting it out.

27:15We talked about Yum in the NBA SKU does this.

27:17And there's such a such a bigger picture and bigger thing at play here that's easy to forget when you just look at devs at desk.

27:23Yeah.

27:24Exactly.

27:24It's this whole modularization of the platform.

27:27I've always thought of it as you have the JavaScript.

27:31You have something like the JavaScript API which lets you uh talk to a Viz and read the data from Averz and that's all well and great.

27:38But imagine something even deeper.

27:39Let's say uh they they do something like the VizQL API, right?

27:44Which um whilst you're looking at a dashboard lets you just basically

27:48look at a dashboard normally but imagine a VizQL API that allows you to pipe your own data into it and then out comes a visualization right like exact same template exact same dashboard but now you're piping instead of data from the database you're pipe

28:00data from a data model same viz and boom it's it comes to life or you know hyper obviously has its own API right modularizing these components that make tableau what it is

28:09And then letting you intersect at any moment in that pipeline to say, actually, thank you very much for what you've done so far.

28:15Now I'd like to do something more dynamic, for example, in D3.

28:19So VizQL talking directly to D3, no tableau in between

28:22That's a great sort of um sort of use case.

28:25Yeah.

28:26No, exactly.

28:27And I I think that that's that'll be without having to have a server load of viz in the first place, right.

28:33I mean and the the the assumption there is that is is that the VizQL element isn't isn't still the secret source that drives everything that you know if Tableau opened up with an API.

28:41Suddenly clicking Power B are gonna be rubbing their hands and being like, oh but finally But why can't VizQL also work in the web?

28:47Like it you could just rewrite VizQL to work in a different way.

28:50world.

28:51It what it's called doesn't matter.

28:52This is the way it does it, right?

28:53Visual query language.

28:55That's all it actually is.

28:56Whether it does it on a on a JavaScript array or JSON object or database or a SQL database or a nice it doesn't matter.

29:02Who cares

29:03Right?

29:03It's just the concept.

29:04Yeah.

29:05Right, yeah, yeah.

29:06I mean you're you're not wrong.

29:07You're not wrong.

29:07And I think and I think that that direction is is super interesting when you start thinking about

29:12What is this tool gonna look like in five years?

29:14Because like I've used it for five years.

29:16In that time it's been reskinned.

29:18It's got th two it's got a new product added to the light, well two new products online as well.

29:23It's got uh expanded features, like so many things have changed in just five years.

29:28Right.

29:29And you know, now they've been brought up by Salesforce, again, a truly browser-only web-based platform, right?

29:37Exactly.

29:38And it's a massive company to boot.

29:40And suddenly you've got this thing of like, okay, what is the direction it takes you on?

29:44I don't I personally don't think

29:46It will be enveloped.

29:47I think Tableau is too big a brand for now for it to be like sucked in.

29:50And I think sales will show that with the Tableau CRM change.

29:53Yeah.

29:54But in terms of the direction, I think.

29:57.

29:57The interesting part will be how do you integrate all of these different good elements together and how do you create something that is market leading even further than it is today, right?

30:09Yeah, exactly.

30:10And

30:11You know, I feel two ways about that.

30:12On one hand, I feel excited because there's a massive opportunity to make things better.

30:16I'd love the data connector in Tableau, the native connector, and then boom, suddenly you've just opened up a whole world of data sources of Tableau.

30:22can connect to that's a great quality of life improvement but that's like tier one integration that's like basic integration I like that thing over there put it on my car let's go my car's better and faster now um you could have done that anyway without buying a company right

30:35Right.

30:36Um tier two integration, which is like you get the best minds from Tableau, you get the best minds from Salesforce, going across borders, seeing what uh people are working on, and creating new ideas, it's a fusion of both companies.

30:46Right, and that's sort of tier two integration.

30:49But that's not why companies merge.

30:51Companies merge because tier three integrations are where you put two companies together and then they create another company.

30:57that eats both companies whole and creates a whole new business area and pushes it forward.

31:02Like that's basically what Disney and Pixar are like, right?

31:05Yeah.

31:05Disney bought Pixar and people thought, oh great acquisition.

31:08No, that was a merger.

31:10Pixar had so much to offer Disney and Disney had nothing, right?

31:14And it's why Pixar is still a brand, right?

31:16It's Disney Pixar, it's not Disney.

31:18Exactly.

31:18It's Disney Pixar because the Pixar brand is so powerful.

31:21Exactly.

31:21And so, you know, I think about what are the opportunities in that realm for for for for for both companies.

31:27And that's what I hope I hope becomes sort of where they take it.

31:31I get worried when we hear about the Salesforce 360 because

31:35All that says to me is you know Salesforce just wants All that says all that says to me is

31:42Salesforce isn't actually interested in in the the opportunities beyond just both companies.

31:48Obviously, Salesforce is a much bigger company than Tableau, much bigger customer base.

31:52Their customers are asking for certain things, but

31:56There's there's more that could be done there.

31:58There's just more.

31:59It's just a lot more than just, you know, what um uh Salesforce CEO, uh what's his name, first name?

32:05Benioff.

32:06Mark Benioff, yeah.

32:08More than what Mark Benioff is talking about, which is just about, you know, providing the analytical capabilities that his Salesforce customers keep asking for, right?

32:16Well, why not go beyond that?

32:18You know, why why stop at just Tableau?

32:20Why not go beyond and into sort of cloud offerings and make it so that people don't have to deploy Tableau in AWS or Azure?

32:27Just give them that cloud platform that they can

32:29deploying and don't give it table online give them something that you know a server admin of today can go in customize set up and pay for in a completely separate process

32:39And I think that that might happen, right?

32:41Because you're always gonna get the admin who's gonna be like, yeah, but I wanna look.

32:43Well I want to integrate this back out.

32:45I don't want I want to get a

32:47Server management API and suddenly you're going to be like this data dev element is just going to go.

32:52Right, right.

32:52But what I mean by that is, you know, if I sorry if I give it a Tableau example, the classic Tableau example is

32:57Let me deploy Tableau across different geographies without worrying about getting them in sync or backed up or whatever, right?

33:03Let me let me do like a geographical deployment, like most cloud platforms can actually do, and Tableau can't, right?

33:09The only way you do that in Tableau is you deploy three servers.

33:11You have some overnight syncing and you know every so often at least they're at least a day out of sync.

33:16Um and you know people have hacked custom things for that but it's just it's just not out of the box and people need this.

33:22You you see, you know, what Tableau and Salesforce, or what hopefully Salesforce need to do with Tableau, is, you know, bring in the kind of things that lots of IT admins have been asking for.

33:30Um continuous integration and development.

33:32sort of pipelines that allow to make it easier to collaborate, to do work and deploy and test in very dynamic ways.

33:38At the moment you have to

33:40This you have this world.

33:46I laugh because I just explained this to Ravi a minute ago.

33:50But anyway, um it's a funny it's a funny little it's a funny world because you know if you say to someone you can't collaborate in a tableau workbook, that's just completely foreign when you think of web development and the stuff that is innovative in that space.

34:01Because yes, today in D3 I absolutely can do that.

34:04And today in R I can do that.

34:07And today in lots of different archaic things, including SQL, I can do that.

34:11But I can't do it in the modern platform that's Tableau.

34:14And so you hope Salesforce really brings that through.

34:16But and I think the the best place to start testing this, and I bang on about this so much, but the best place to test these things is Tableau Public, right?

34:24Like

34:24Create like it's the best place to start, you know, to say like, hey, we're thinking about doing things around collaboration and development.

34:31You know, you guys collaborate with each other to build visualizations.

34:33Do you want to test this out?

34:34And you know, you then get like GitHub level forking and a lot of that sort of what's the word?

34:39forking and splitting and all this stuff that you get in terms of um sharing sharing content and you know you suddenly get away from this element of

34:47Someone stole my work.

34:49I was about to say something along those lines.

34:51So this is where I think Tableau has to listen less to his community and listen more to

34:55those people who aren't part of the community and ask why aren't they part of it, right?

34:59Because if you listen to the tablet community, no one's asking for CICD pipelines, right?

35:04But but they want the opposite, right?

35:06Yeah, exactly.

35:07But if you actually listen listen to sort of the requirements that come through from, you know, people who have a lot of pain points with Tableau, um, this is something they ask for.

35:15And actually Tableau Public is a good place to test it

35:17But it's not a good place to see how the idea sort of comes it manifests, right?

35:22Uh great place test bed, but the ideas are not coming from the Tableau community in that sense

35:27I'm 100% sure if I go to uh Tableau Ideas page, I'll see something about CICD and it will have like 10 votes on it.

35:35Whereas something like dynamic parameters will have a thousand, but then dynamic parameters are just

35:40Like n in in programming languages that's just like well a bunch of variables and if statements that are very easy to do.

35:48So it's a it's a very interesting sort of um challenge they've got.

35:52I I I just hope that

35:54In the next year or so, we see a m a much stronger intent from Salesforce about where they want to take Tableau.

36:01Much stronger than where there we are today.

36:03Because at the moment it feels like

36:05They're still in that courting stage.

36:06It's still like you're at a disco, you know, people are dancing and they haven't quite started to mix, right?

36:11Yeah.

36:12You you picked out who you're gonna talk to, you know their name.

36:16You you're building up the courage to go and talk to them.

36:18This is where everything feels like it's at.

36:20But what I'm hoping we get next year is this

36:25I haven't been to one in probably over a decade, but I still remember what it felt like.

36:30And so it's a good analogy.

36:31So yeah, no, like I hope next year we see that actual statement of intent, right?

36:36This is what we believe Tableau can do.

36:38And not just, I already think Tableau know what they can do, but I want to see what Salesforce thinks Tableau can do, right?

36:44Because that's where the good thing can happen.

36:46That's where the opportunities can happen.

36:48Um and to have it more than just be something like a plug-on for Salesforce customers to to add on to their licenses.

36:55You know, we when we think about the the conversation we had earlier about business user and trying to deliver things at the time of insight, Salesforce does that

37:02kind of right like that's what I thought Einstein was right it's this little thing that's understanding everything that's going on

37:10on Salesforce.

37:12And it's like understanding you as a profile user, it's not understanding what you're looking at.

37:15It's understanding people like you.

37:17It's understanding all the different things you're looking at.

37:18It's connecting all the dots.

37:19It's looking historically, it's doing machine learning and doing inverted commas.

37:23Um on all of these different things.

37:25And then it's being like, you probably should do this next, right?

37:28Right, right.

37:28And and that's like delivering almost trying to preempt and coach those questions out of the user.

37:32Now

37:33If Tableau CRM still keeps that little guy and chunks him into Tableau and starts to help prompt those questions, then suddenly, yeah, you know what?

37:41Bring back Clippy.

37:42Yeah.

37:44Give give me Einstein Tableau if he's gonna help the user and guide them to better, more robust analysis.

37:50Because if the users then they would say, that's not what I want to know, that's not what I want to know, oh that's what I want to know.

37:55You're then coaching the questions

37:57And then within within the Tableau ecosystem and the industry and the people you're using, suddenly you've got a bank of questions that are very relevant, right?

38:05I think the biggest sort of

38:07uh I would I don't want to say anti, but the the naysayers of asked data are always like, yeah, but the questions it has by default, they're never what I want to know.

38:14It's like, well, what if you can start capturing what it does want to know?

38:17Right.

38:17And how do you do that?

38:18You prompt and then you let it's it's it's how normal machine learning and computer vision and stuff like that works.

38:24Yeah you tell it yes and no, right?

38:26You you create rules.

38:28goes off and And it learns from those rules using neural network analysis.

38:33Indeed.

38:34And yeah, you know there's still so much hanging fruit as well in those worlds, right?

38:39Like

38:39uh y you have a focus on Salesforce, blah blah blah, but there's also a bunch of opportunity in sort of uh not automated analytics but um sort of IoT analytics.

38:50Uh you do a lot of uh sort of thinking about some of this

38:53stuff when it relates to how Hannah Surely Redacted Future Tech, yeah.

38:58Redacted Future Tech.

39:00Um how your sport sort of does its business, right?

39:02And it's it's an interesting question as to what I what about that that

39:06aspect what is tableau doing to sort of innovate in that direction because that will become increasingly the area of analytics that generates the most data and actually if you don't pay attention to it that is also an important aspect that we need to

39:18uh we need to be looking at.

39:21About you know what does a data strategy look like?

39:23What what is what is the end goal?

39:26And the end goal is never that that data strategy becomes a really good thing.

39:29And it's never that

39:30You suddenly create an ecosystem where everyone's asking, answering questions.

39:34Right.

39:35The end goal is truly when you're not talking about data at all, it just becomes part of the conversation.

39:40Right.

39:40And everyone, instead of talking about data, they're just talking about insight and answers and questions.

39:45Like the the year the this is very much a time where

39:49People are almost bored of being told that data is the new oil.

39:52It's gonna change your life.

39:54Yeah, yeah.

39:54All of these things, right?

39:55What what everyone knows that.

39:57But what can I do with it?

39:58What should I be doing with it?

39:59There's no direction and directive in that space.

40:01But that's why like

40:03When you think about future tech and future space and what is the world going to look like and you're saying let's bring analytics to me, you don't have to again, like we said, you bring it to where you collaborate, you bring it to where you're you're working, right?

40:15You bring it to all these different things.

40:16Um

40:17And you and you you make it part of that conversation that's easy to follow more than anything else.

40:23I think the final part I want to add on there is um one of the Python tutorials that I started and never finished after writing Hello World was automate the hard things.

40:32I think for me that is 100% the point of automation.

40:37Like just automate the stuff you don't want to do.

40:39Yeah.

40:39So you can spend time doing stuff you do want to do.

40:42Right.

40:42Yeah.

40:42And that's where that's why you don't want to be spending time doing data prep.

40:46You just want it done for you.

40:47Right.

40:47Right.

40:47That's what you want to truly

40:50Get get to a point.

40:50So you're not you're not having to think about data preparation, data structure, unless you really want to.

40:54Yeah.

40:55You're just thinking about questions and you're getting answers that are have roots in data with robust methodology.

41:00100%.

41:01100%

41:03It's a tough it's a tough one to sort of round off.

41:05I think uh to be honest, I don't know how many companies uh have that level of thinking, right?

41:10I think every company is playing catch-up in one way of when one way or another.

41:13And you sort of need an industry leader to share the example before other people sort of catch on and follow on.

41:19Um and there's just not many, many people doing that unless you work in a statistical

41:23or focus, like you know, science organizations are really good at doing this, research organizations are good at doing this, but elsewhere business isn't just as good.

41:30Yeah.

41:31And and also why would they share it?

41:33Yeah, exactly.

41:33Yeah.

41:34If they're nailing it, why would they share it?

41:35Yeah

41:36Yeah, true.

41:36Why why would why why would they share it right?

41:40Pilantir is that good like dark, shady company that no one really knows what they do, but they kind of know what they do.

41:46Yeah.

41:46They just they've just like been at the bleeding edge of all all things future tech for a long time and they've they've made a business out of it, right?

41:52So all of these different companies, if you're doing it well, why why why why would you talk about why would you publicize what you're doing well

41:59In many ways, if you're talking about it publicly, then you're probably well behind the curve.

42:03Oh, 100%.

42:04What was it?

42:04Um the the the concept of expected goals is a good one to to to use as analogy here.

42:10The second that Arsenal Menger used it in a press conference and legitimized it.

42:13It's like yeah yeah okay cool, what we do next?

42:15Like it was the the point of you know bookies have been like bookies had the models that was basically expected for a long time, it then became the in the public sphere where it was talked about regularly, and then it's dead, it's like cool, we're we've we're we're sorted

42:26Like the second it comes public, you realize this was two years, three years, four years ago.

42:32Yeah.

42:32That everyone else was doing it.

42:34Um it's kinda it's kind of like patents in a way, right?

42:37Speaking of patents, what do you make of the um Apple Apple announcements in the last couple of days?

42:43Oh interesting, interesting.

42:44Um so 5G, is it a big deal or not?

42:49Well, I think in the UK it's not a big deal, which probably like if you just take away 5G from the yesterday's announcement, it it was a fairly

42:57lackluster upgrade of a phone.

42:59Like it wasn't that it wasn't that sort of blockbuster.

43:02The the improvements aren't the kind of improvements that everyday, you know, Joe or Samantha's act

43:07If you're gonna notice, right?

43:08No one's recording Dolby 10 bit color HDR 4K 60 FPS video every day of their baby farting in their face.

43:16Right?

43:16Like it's just like you're you're gonna be a father in about two or three weeks, mate.

43:20Are you not gonna get a few more?

43:21Exactly.

43:22Exactly, which is which is exactly why I gave that example.

43:24Like no one is recording anything at that level of detail

43:27The simple fact that it would just fill up your phone too quickly and leave alone, like you you want to store memories, not freaking create like a video archive of of

43:35you know, highest quality definition of it uh version of everything.

43:39Um and then you know this whole environmental like bullcrap about like oh

43:47We we we equated all the CO2 emissions that go into making the headphones in the power bank, and we realized that it's 450,000 cars off the road.

43:57So we're not going to put it in the case for you, right?

44:00So it's like, okay, great.

44:02So now I pay the exact same price, not even cheaper price, exact same price for a lot less.

44:10Okay.

44:11And what will probably end up happening is yeah, when my charger breaks, as it does every year, I actually count on that replacement every year.

44:19I personally will drive to the Apple store and buy it.

44:23So all you've done is not carbon offset it.

44:25You've actually distributed the carbon

44:27Efficiency just across everyone else.

44:29They have offset it, but they've offset it to you.

44:31Yeah.

44:31So it's not them that feels crap about it.

44:33Right.

44:34It's you that feels crap about it.

44:35And then guess who's still selling a £20 power adapter?

44:38Oh, of course it's Apple.

44:40Yes

44:40Of course.

44:41So I'll go to the Apple store and buy the thing I w I should have had in my box.

44:46And they'll just make more money.

44:48Go buy MagSafe.

44:49Exactly.

44:49Go buy MagSafe from us.

44:51Like no one else, it's propriety connected.

44:53Look how amazing it is.

44:53Oh, by the way, we don't give it to you in the box.

44:56Honestly, just such a load of tribe about the environment.

45:00Look, if you wanted to say you wanted to save on costs

45:03Just cut costs, keep the price the same, and let people be bitter about that.

45:07But don't try and geise it on this whole environmental thing when

45:11Y like 450,000 cars off the road, great.

45:14Well watch a million people go to the Apple store to buy the charger that they should have had in their boxes, right?

45:21Well just buy a cheaper charger is gonna ruin the battery

45:24That too.

45:26Oh man.

45:26Yeah, it's it's it's a sort of a weird thing.

45:29You know, I I think I think that's quite full circle, right?

45:32Because we've we've just talked about the fact that a lot of people found

45:35The tableau features announcement quite lackluster and it's like this isn't really for everyone.

45:40Yeah.

45:41And you know the consumer's not going to see the benefit, but a few other people will.

45:44Yeah.

45:44And so we've we've I mean that's that's exactly what what this was, right?

45:47You suddenly maybe that's what twenty twenty tech is, right?

45:50You got Tech Toba at Tech

45:52Tember uh coming up where you've got all these different things, uh all these different technologies doing their release time.

45:57Yeah.

45:58So I think this is what we're gonna get.

45:59We're just gonna get incremental hardware updates and not juicy bits for everyone to use.

46:03But I think Apple

46:04on Apple probably more so than other companies.

46:07The the device they release today is actually not for the the world of today.

46:13It's for the world of two to three years from now.

46:16And because their phones last so long, yeah, the iPhone they announced today needs to have features that in three, four years' time will be applicable.

46:24Right?

46:24Because if I if if I ask you Ravi, what phone do you have now?

46:27IXR.

46:28IFNXR.

46:29That's what, two years old?

46:31Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:32So two years old.

46:34Exactly.

46:34So the features Apple put into that phone two years ago are what you rely on day-to-day today and probably for the next year, right?

46:40And when you come to upgrade your phone in a year's time, the features in that iPhone you'll rely on for the next three years.

46:47But they did this with the watch, right?

46:49They did this exactly the same thing with the watch.

46:51If you've got a five, you're not gonna buy the six, but if you've got a three, you should buy the six.

46:55Exactly, exactly.

46:56And so the the the today's announcement or yesterday's announcement wasn't for people who have a knife and 11 Pro, although the suckers who love the best and latest will still go and buy the new thing, like me.

47:05But

47:06For most people, for most people, there's no reason to upgrade if you got a phone last year or even the year before that, right?

47:13And and and I think Apple's starting to acknowledge that.

47:16And that is actually how their strategy is sort of going forward.

47:19It speaks to the interesting fact that when they do the demos, they don't have many use cases for things like LiDAR.

47:25They know the implications, they know where it's going to be valuable.

47:28But fundamentally, the developers haven't got hold of the devices to build the things that would be actually useful in two to three years' time when everyone has that as a mainstream device.

47:36So you have to start putting it in devices today so that in two years' time, it's a mainstream thing

47:42And that's where like WWDC is more perhaps more interesting than the Apple product launches these days, right?

47:47Yeah.

47:47Because you're really interested in what tools are you giving developers to play with this, right?

47:51App Clips, for example, right?

47:53Yeah.

47:53Apple I think are going to be really, really useful, especially in the 5G world.

47:57Um part of also man.

48:02Yeah yeah yeah exactly and and uh but like things like that what what else was there the um the the the code code base that you can now use on mac iOS Mac OS and iOS Swift Simon Swi uh Swift yeah I think there's a different name for it though

48:15Uh because it was a new code base that was able to cargo.

48:19Swift UI.

48:20It used to be Coffee and then Coffee Scripts or something like that.

48:24And now it's uh Swift UI, which allows you to write an interface once and deploy it across the entire platform.

48:30Yeah, yeah, exactly.

48:31So like um that that will allow more users to build more, but then also take advantage of the hardware, right?

48:38Again, right.

48:39It's it's a really smart thing.

48:40Like the the

48:41The last two years for Apple I think have been I guess my my comparison is the iPhone 6 and 7.

48:47Right, right.

48:48Right.

48:48They're not big leaps.

48:50But we're we're building up to the notchless phone.

48:52That's why we will give you one thing in Rhea, but we're gonna go from the five, which was a great phone, like possibly the best looking phone sin until this one

49:00Right.

49:01So we're going for the five, we're gonna skip the six and seven and eight, because they're basically the same.

49:05You're gonna get a nice camera, nice inside.

49:07And then we're gonna hit you with the ten, right?

49:09Now we're in the same.

49:10And then we're gonna give you the ten.

49:1210 World, we've got 10, 11, 12, XX10R, SE for those who want to stay on like just a smaller phone.

49:18And I'm gonna hit you with this one, which is notchless with the bezels.

49:22And it's gonna look good.

49:23And touch ID under the screen.

49:26Yeah, exactly.

49:27And then suddenly you're now and then exactly and and then you know in into in next year or the year after you're gonna get

49:33Touch ID under the screen similar to what you got in the iPad Air, and you're probably gonna get USB-C.

49:38Yeah.

49:38I want 3D touchback, honestly.

49:40That was one hack I love that they took away from me.

49:43In fact, in my Apple Watch Series 4, not only did they take it away from me

49:47They disabled it from me.

49:49Like that's I bought that watch with a feature and they took it away in an iOS update

49:55How dare they?

49:56Honestly.

49:57Like, I I I d I don't even know if that's legal.

50:00Is that even allowed?

50:01Like I buy a watch.

50:03I buy a watch with a sensor that allows me to force-touch it

50:07And then in an update, they take that feature away.

50:10So it still has the ability to do that, but now it just doesn't work.

50:13Like who does that?

50:15What what

50:16What I reckon you should do is um write email to Epic Games and just tap this onto the bottom of their uh class action lawsuit.

50:22Can you slip this in, yeah.

50:23And while you're at it, can you slip this one in?

50:25Yeah.

50:26What while you're going at at the microtransactions on the app store, can we just go and attack in, are you allowed to take away tech from me?

50:34Yeah, through a feature up uh a software update.

50:37A software update that removes features.

50:39Like honestly, it's just I don't know how that just went unnoticed, right?

50:44Like I just it was a feature of the watch, a hardware feature.

50:48I bought the watch and they took it away with a software update.

50:51Honestly.

50:53Anyway.

50:53You can't tell I'm not bitter at all about that.

50:55I've got a series six now that I've gotten used to not force touching uh everything.

50:59But it took ages to get out of the muscle memory for that.

51:02Um but I want them to bring that back.

51:05Touch ID.

51:06Well, I think this year proves that they need to bring touch ID.

51:09Because I don't know how many people go to unlock their phone with face ID and it's like eh-

51:14So bring touch ID back.

51:16But the the dumb part isn't that it goes uh uh it's like you have to wait three times before it lets you put your passcode.

51:22Yeah, yeah.

51:22It it does get there faster to be fair.

51:24It does get there faster like

51:25Um I notice when I go to these payments, it does actually get there faster.

51:29But if you do uh like unlocking your phone, it tries three times, then it will

51:33Do that.

51:33But if you the hack is to do uh double tap for a payment, that will give you the passcode straight away, and then you swipe away and then you go back

51:41And it's this is what we have to do, man.

51:43It's just the way it is.

51:45Um so yeah, bring back touch ID.

51:47They've got it on the iPad Air, so that's clearly possible, right?

51:51Um the iPad Air has touch ID but no face ID, which is

51:55Weird.

51:55Um so I thought the first idea was never.

52:04tablet right like suddenly you've got the form and function of uh iPad Pro without promotion price point without promotion which most people won't recognize but yeah

52:12Yeah.

52:13If you if you draw with the promotion and the spatial sound.

52:15Yeah, if you draw with the alcohol pencil, you'll notice promotion, but if you don't, then you won't

52:20I have no idea what you're talking about, and I've got a pro.

52:24So you have no idea what I'm talking about, but go go look at an iPad that doesn't have it and you'll know what I'm talking about.

52:31straight away.

52:32It's obviously to do with the screen.

52:33So I won't even tell you what it is.

52:34I just see next time you're in an Apple store, which won't be for a while.

52:38Or next time you see an i next time you see an iPad.

52:42I can I can do this, I can do that.

52:44I've got I've got a um I've got a spare row.

52:46Right, right, exactly.

52:47So open that up, put them side to side, go to a web page and scroll.

52:51Tell me what you see.

52:53Right, there we go.

52:54Homework.

52:56For the next episode of Dragon Ballsy.

53:03I don't know why Dragon Ballsy came into my mind, but yes, uh next episode of the podcast.

53:07Which we probably better start a new season, Avi.

53:10Yeah, I think that the what we we we made a joke on during the watch line where we're like we we should just start a new season because

53:15The second we start lapsing and doing them and the gaps get bigger and bigger between podcasts, like, let's start a new season.

53:21This is when you this is when you renew.

53:23I can't wait for the season to get to 52 weeks, then it'll be like, oh

53:26Okay.

53:27We've made it a year.

53:29Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

53:30Actually it's twenty-four because we don't do one every week, but yeah.

53:33Oh god.

53:34No, absolutely.

53:35It's uh we we basically need to get back on the bandwagon.

53:37I think this is winter, this is a winter seasonal podcast though.

53:39As soon as summer comes.

53:41Things get busy, you change jobs, I have kids, you know, it's just uh just gets too busy for us to keep the sort of momentum.

53:48So it makes sense that

53:49It's about time we start a new season going into the And I think you're absolutely right, you know, when you have a kid you're gonna have so much spare time, you know, it's not

53:59Hey, just listen, I might be doing a podcast with the next time uh sorry the next time we talk, I might be doing a podcast with a baby in my arms.

54:05Honestly, it's that close.

54:07So yeah.

54:08Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.

54:10Yeah, so I think I think yeah, lele let's call let's call this the end of season.

54:13Um I think what we can do we've got a couple of uh ideas and on guests to bring in.

54:17I think we had

54:18Uh Gwillem and Kent earlier on this year.

54:20Yeah.

54:20Uh Kent Martin and Gwillem Locke were talking about data ethics as well as um uh Kent talking about his life as a

54:28As a um as a tableau developer, he's moved on to Elasticsearch.

54:31Elastic, yeah.

54:32Who've got their conference today.

54:34Um but yeah, we we've got a couple of people lined up that we're going to speak to, hopefully to

54:38Not not not really getting inside track on what what's happening at Tableau, but more more so like understand the thinking and the sort of planning and things like that.

54:46Similar to what we talked to Kent about, right?

54:48Um so hopefully we can get into those and then um yeah it's it's

54:51You know, I think I think one of the things we talked about after the watch along was possibly doing a video version of these.

54:56Um where we we've we've done one live episode where we just record like went live and then recorded ourselves chatting, which then turned into the actual podcast.

55:05But um

55:05Yeah.

55:05We might do something like that.

55:06But um let us know if you've got something that you're interested in doing or seeing.

55:10Um uh yeah, let us know and we'll try and tr squeeze it into next season.

55:14But I've got an awesome idea, Rabby.

55:16We should we should stream and watch

55:19the Power BI keynote.

55:21Ooh.

55:25So it's already happened for the record.

55:27But we could play it as if it's live and then just comment because I haven't actually watched it.

55:31But we should do this for loads of other analytics products and just see how how that goes down.

55:36Yeah, but you know what?

55:37That's not a terrible idea at all.

55:39I I like that.

55:39Just just watching back on

55:41Maybe maybe even let's let's throw in some Shabot, old school, Christian Shabot keynotes where we can just lament on how great a speaker he was and like the ideas he got going with you.

55:53You know, the reason I suggest this is because uh there's obviously quite a few Power BI YouTube personalities

56:01And uh there is one whose uh video about Tableau I highly despise because it's the most one-sided assessment of Tableau I've ever seen.

56:10But yes, um if we start with a live stream we might then be able to sort of pull in the the Power BI fanboys uh to engage in our in our podcast a little bit.

56:19Yeah.

56:19Give it give us some heat, as it were.

56:22No, I I think that that I I I I'd enjoy that as a conversation, you know.

56:26Yeah, exactly.

56:27Exactly.

56:28Get get something on so far the other way.

56:32Well, I I I like to think of myself as a relatively rational person.

56:35Um but I do have a lot of ammunition against Power BI from my previous job at Till.

56:40I might just cut out that

56:41Snip it and put it at the start of the podcast as the intro and then I'll get straight into it.

56:50Good stuff.

56:50Okay, cool.

56:51We have a we have a plan for the next uh sort of season of content.

56:54Stay tuned for that.

56:55We'll obviously try and do that very, very, very soon.

56:57Otherwise, uh thank you for listening to this whole season.

56:59It's been uh great to have uh a whole world of new listeners as well

57:03Uh Ravi as ever.

57:04It's been a great hosting the podcast with you.

57:06Thank you for not leaving me on my lonesome when you love me professionally.

57:10Uh uh in in in in many ways.

57:14So yeah, um hopefully next season uh we can we can balance the books a little.

57:17Little bit.

57:19Absolutely.

57:19Nice one.

57:20Take care, everyone, and uh we'll speak to you soon