Episode 1: Goal Setting

0:00Cool.

0:00So it's definitely recording this time?

0:01Yep.

0:02Cool.

0:04Hello and welcome to What So What Now What.

0:08Today is the second of January 2018 and I'm joined by my co-host, Ravi.

0:12Hello

0:13Uh this podcast is about data and technology.

0:16So Ravi, why did we start this podcast?

0:19Sure, yeah.

0:19So this is one of the things that I think we both wanted to do for a while.

0:23Yeah

0:23And it sort of stemmed from many, many long chats where oftentimes I was talking at you as well as with you.

0:31I think one of the early ideas for naming this podcast was Rabbi Talks, Tim Listens.

0:36Um but yeah, no, the the the structure, the name what so what now what comes from a presentation style.

0:42So when you're presenting you start off with the what you then move on to the so what and then you finish off with a nice big now what and I thought it was a

0:49quite a nice way to um structure a podcast.

0:52Absolutely, absolutely.

0:53And I think data and technology are two things that we're passionate about.

0:57I'm extremely passionate about technology.

0:59We both work in data and I think um we have

1:02some perspectives there that we can share.

1:05And hopefully if you enjoy it, let us know on whatever podcast listening method you're using.

1:11Also on Twitter, let us know there.

1:13We love the feedback, especially early on in our first few

1:16So be in touch.

1:18Today we thought we'd talk about goals.

1:20This is that time of the year when everyone sets their goals.

1:24So which podcast isn't talking about the year ahead and what it has to offer?

1:29So um yeah, goal setting.

1:31Like what's the deal with that?

1:33So yeah, I mean it this this time everyone's talking about their new years resolutions, what they resolved to be doing for the twelve months ahead.

1:40And it's a bit of an arbitrary thing, right, to say

1:42today or in the first couple of weeks or the previous la final few weeks of twenty seventeen you sort of decide what you're gonna do for the next fifty two weeks the three to sixty five days and you're saying I'm gonna I don't know sell

1:56a thousand things every week or I'm gonna I don't know write a blog every two two blogs a month is c it can't be that hard right um and it often starts off well with good intentions and then fills all

2:09So what is a goal?

2:10It depends, right?

2:11It depends on your perspective, how you're framing it, how you want to move forward with it.

2:17Yeah, ultimately it's it's an interesting one, isn't it?

2:20It's setting a goal at the start of a calendar year.

2:23Yeah, yeah, so I I guess we've done the what.

2:26uh setting a goal.

2:27I guess the description of a goal in itself is an an interesting thing.

2:32I think of them as milestones and rather than a goal.

2:35A goal is something you're trying to achieve.

2:36So it's more like a milestone you're trying to reach

2:39and that you set for yourself.

2:41So but different people describe goals completely differently.

2:44Now the so what the so what aspect of this

2:47is the interesting thing that I find.

2:49Um I I I used to set goals uh pretty religiously at the beginning and uh

2:55uh the year and at the end of the year I'd reflect on them.

2:58I'm thinking until about two and a half years ago it dawned on me January is the worst possible time to be setting

3:04goals.

3:05Yeah.

3:05And let again let me elaborate this.

3:07And I'm sorry to anyone who sets their goals in January, but this is this is just my personal opinion.

3:12If you look at the year as a whole and

3:15You really need to set goals at a time and place that is suited towards whatever's going on in your life.

3:22And for me personally, it's just not January nor December

3:25For me and the work that I do, it's actually more around October, September when you have conferences, when you've uh

3:34Uh you know, surrounded yourself with other people in the community, your peers, your friends.

3:39Um you know lots of stuff happens over the sort of the summer holidays or the summer break wherever you are and obviously that changes for different people in different

3:47countries but I feel that having had that exposure to people I'm better placed to actually be able to sit and reflect on what I want to work on

3:57for the year ahead.

3:58So my goal calendar or when I set my sort of objectives for the year as a whole don't map to the calendar year.

4:05They map

4:06between October and September each year and I use that space and time between September and October to December to just formalize in my head what I actually

4:17want to do to make those things happen.

4:18Then I use January onwards to sort of make that happen.

4:22And it lines up nicely for me.

4:24I think when I've you know changed jobs in the past, that's exactly the same thing that's happened.

4:29I've used that time before

4:30Christmas, before the new year, to rationalize what exactly I'm thinking about.

4:34And then I've made that thing happen in the year after.

4:37And I feel it gives me a longer run into things.

4:40And I get myself to a situation where I can

4:43you know six months in I can actually reflect on what I've done so far and do things to change.

4:48I guess that actually um thinking about it maps quite nicely to you know animals animal cycles right because if you think about you've got

4:54the winter hibernation period where you're imbibing or, you know, developing into your little hub.

5:00And then spring comes in a spring with the reinvention and um a start of new life, whatever.

5:04And that's when you're making that step forward.

5:06So I guess

5:06works quite nice and to think of it seasonally rather than periodically.

5:10I think that's that's sort of my view with with the w I mean my reflections I wrote in a blog post recently uh of twenty seventeen was

5:18Very much that everything that happened that was I that I'd class as an achievement wasn't anything near what I'd set I could have set myself because everything that happened last year was very fluid

5:31And I think that that's very much the case for lots of people, maybe be it personal, very much so in the personal life, but um definitely in even in the uh professional sphere as well.

5:42So

5:42You know, goal setting yes makes sense, but I think that having, as you said, milestones in a periodic way makes way more sense

5:51But yeah, I think uh but it depends, right?

5:53So I think the the nice part of the change of the year is there's a very definitive clear point where people

6:00n like to move forward and develop and think of different what's the word the things that they wish they would have done in a previous year and then move it to resolve to do it in a next year.

6:11But I don't think it will actually nothing ever matters unless you actually

6:15Make it happen right.

6:16Yeah.

6:16Unless you actually take a period of time to say, at this point, I'm gonna look back and say, have I achieved X, Y, and Z?

6:23Absolutely.

6:24And I think the other thing about that is that the process of setting goals should be a continuous one.

6:29There's no reason why it has to be

6:32uh happen seasonally either.

6:34You could you could set yourself goals on an ongoing basis.

6:38You don't have to wait for a particular opportunity.

6:40You don't have to sit

6:41of tie yourself down and I I find that really sort of liberating.

6:45Like a a goal can be something you decide to do tomorrow and finish the day after.

6:50And it can be as small as that or it can be as ambitious as something that you do over you know a long period of time

6:55Let's say a decade or five years or something like that.

6:57A good example is buying a home, right?

6:59That's a long-term goal.

7:01When you achieve it, it's a pretty big deal.

7:02You celebrate it.

7:03And you plan for that in a very long, holistic way, but you can't really control exactly when that happens

7:08So here's a question for you.

7:10You um endeavored to do a marathon every year, right?

7:12Absolutely.

7:13When did you set that goal for yourself?

7:14Like what was the reasoning behind it?

7:16It was completely spur of the moment.

7:18The the simple fact was I realized I was on a street

7:22So um I realized that I'd done uh two marathons uh every year.

7:28Uh

7:29of a succession of two years.

7:30And so I decided, well, this seems to be something I'm capable of doing.

7:34I'd hate in the future to stop doing it because

7:37I'm being lazy or something.

7:39And actually I found in those two years that running was something that really motivated me, kept me sort of engaged.

7:46And it was also one of those unique moments uh where I could track my progress.

7:51I was in control.

7:52of like the destiny from start to finish.

7:54So I said, you know what?

7:55This is a good influence in my life.

7:56I'm gonna make sure that I do this every year.

7:59So at that moment in time is actually after uh the Yorkshire Marathon

8:02So it was in October of 2015, I want to say.

8:06Um yeah, I just said okay, I'm gonna do this every year.

8:09And the funny thing is that also doesn't mean that I booked all my marathons for

8:14this year.

8:14Right.

8:15It means that in February I might decide to do the Barcelona marathon.

8:20Or I might be lazy and in summer I might sign up.

8:24to the Amsterdam marathon.

8:26It's it's it's completely free flowing.

8:28But I've made sure that every single year since 2000 and I think it's now uh thirteen I've done a marathon.

8:35And that's that remains the case.

8:37So going back to goal set, I feel like what's more important than setting a goal and sticking to it or achieving it is

8:44the framework that surrounds it, right?

8:46So thinking about it on a more maybe maybe not meta level, but on a sort of higher level, you're thinking, so in order to achieve this goal, what do I need to do?

8:55And that's more

8:56Rewarding, right?

8:57Everyone, you know, you talk about the standard quote of it's not about the destination, it's about the journey, right?

9:02And maybe

9:04I don't know, I feel like there should be more thought put into the planning of the goal and achieving it than there is on the goal itself.

9:14Um I guess that happens inherently if you're s you're adamant and determined enough to stick to that goal and wanting to make it happen.

9:21Um but I yeah, there's a there's so many obstacles and hurdles you have to go through in order to achieve a goal.

9:27And I feel like those

9:28Almost seems to be more better marketed and mapped to say, okay, in order to run a marathon, you can't just sign up for one.

9:36Yeah

9:36Right.

9:37So if I said this year I'm gonna run a marathon, I am definitely not capable of doing it.

9:40Yeah.

9:41Uh given my fitness levels, given the fact that I don't run that often.

9:44Given the fact that um I need to set aside time to train for one, you know, do an hour, two hour runs, three hour, four hour runs for a full marathon.

9:53Um

9:54So for me I'd need to think of that before saying myself I'm gonna book a marathon and do it.

10:00Exactly.

10:01So um yeah I think I think the frame the framework and the milestones, I mean in some cases those need to be documented better.

10:09Um to say, okay, you've decided to join a gym.

10:12Yeah.

10:13What you actually need to do is fix your diet first, set aside your routine in a day.

10:18Yeah.

10:18Think about exactly what you're going to do to in order to achieve it.

10:22So for example, if I said this year I want to learn Python, you know, I want to master it and actually get it to a level where

10:27I can do most of the things I do with Altrix in Python as a interchangeable step and then also push the abilities of integrating Python into Tableau.

10:36I would need to understand exactly what I needed to install onto my PC, exactly what I needed to learn, what was the best way for me to learn Python.

10:46And all these different things.

10:47I mean and I feel like a lot of these things aren't documented.

10:50You don't talk about them and people that achieve those goals don't reflect on those enough.

10:54Yes, true.

10:54Very true.

10:55You you're more likely to get someone to say, oh hi the by the way

10:58I learned Python this year and now I'm really good at it.

11:00It's like I I I want to know how what you're sweating over.

11:04I know I want to know the steps you took.

11:05I want to

11:06I'd rather follow you follow you on that journey than know that you s accomplished it.

11:10And even if people aren't sharing that, I think um in general

11:15People should be more aware that the final achievement that you often see from people is the sum total of a lot of pain and suffering and stress.

11:26to actually get to that point.

11:27Um marathon's a good example.

11:29You have to train miles and miles.

11:31If you're learning Python, um yes you could learn Python the language, but that doesn't mean you're you're able and capable of the thing.

11:37You know, Python.

11:39Yeah, exactly

11:39No, it doesn't even mean you're a data scientist, you just know Python.

11:43To apply it to that specific field that you'll need to go down a very specific

11:48learning path and um JavaScript is a really good example that's something I'm aspiring to learn a lot more this year.

11:55JavaScript is just a hellhole of

11:57of of of learning because there's so many libraries that sit on top of it that just don't work with each other and that break and be people have ideological views on which ones you should and shouldn't use.

12:08But the the pain and process of

12:10figuring those out and learning that is part of what it takes to be a developer in that sense.

12:15So I guess now we're on to the now what.

12:17Okay.

12:18So we've talked about uh the goal, time of the year we've done the so what, where we set goals and where

12:24Uh what's uh in the year ahead for you then?

12:28So yeah, I mean again like I said, I I I don't really like selling myself solid goals.

12:34Um

12:35purely because of what I said, right?

12:37Like everything that I achieved in 2017 would was so fluid and just, you know, happened.

12:42And you know, with the for example, I talked about um becoming fully Tableau server satisfied

12:47If I'd said to myself on the 1st of January 2017, by the end of the year you're gonna have sat that seven-hour exam and you'd have passed it, I would have probably laughed at that person because it just wasn't in my

13:00in my field of vision and I have to you know give a shout out to Carl Orchard for pushing me to do that for and also to Jonathan McDonald for supporting me in that journey but

13:08Now this year I want to talk about that journey because I've sort of been under that hood for the what six months that I was

13:17doing a lot of server-related um work and I want to talk about that a lot more.

13:22And I think that's that's what is what's in store for me personally in the year ahead.

13:26I want to start talking a lot more about the work I do, but also how I do it.

13:30Yeah.

13:30I want to talk about the process.

13:32But let me challenge you on something.

13:34Are you saying therefore that you you've set goals in the past, but they're nowhere near as accomplished as the things you've actually achieved

13:44Does that mean that you actually therefore could do a better job of setting more ambitious goals?

13:50I think I actually could do a better job of setting different goals.

13:54I feel like I'm I'm very much guilty of being a lazy person.

13:58Um in that I will set goals that I know I'll be able to hit, right?

14:01Okay.

14:02So ex for example I'll say I I'll I'll cycle uh twenty kilometers this weekend because I know I can cycle twenty kilometers

14:08uh because I've done it before.

14:10Now if I said to myself I'm gonna cycle 50 or 80 I would yeah I I would I I don't think I would sell that.

14:17So maybe that's

14:18Something in me that's like mmm, I'll just hit a goal that I can achieve to get that internal satisfaction.

14:25So yeah, may may maybe that is underpromise over the Yeah, exactly.

14:29Right, yeah, spoken like a freaking tiltant.

14:33Um

14:34No, for me I think I want to talk about that a lot more, talk about my struggles and how to overcome them, how I I personally have overcome them.

14:43um and that process.

14:45And yeah, maybe maybe I need to re-evaluate the way I do set my goals.

14:50But I definitely don't think it will be

14:53uh approaching in the way of you know I'll set a goal in January or February and then expect to do it by in a 12-month arbitrary period of time it'll be a long-term goal or a very short term goal with or a goal with check um points and milestones where

15:06I'll stop and reflect and say, okay, at what point am I along on this goal?

15:13Have I ignored it?

15:14Have it has been

15:14sort of left alone to sort of die down um have i just purposely just put it to one side for now and when can I pick it up?

15:22I think this is where the field you're working with data and being able to quantify that

15:27is a really nice thing to do.

15:28Yeah.

15:29Um but also sometimes quite hard, right?

15:31It's extremely hard.

15:33Um so to touch on that

15:35I I guess first I'll touch on my objectives for the year.

15:38Yeah, sure.

15:38I've already started them, as I highlighted earlier.

15:40I spent September till now uh thinking about that.

15:44I th I guess for the year ahead for me it's oriented around my profession.

15:50data tableau.

15:52I really want to be a positive influence in the community.

15:55I think the community has a lot of challenges.

15:57Had a lot of challenges last year.

15:59I think some people would argue it doesn't.

16:01I would argue it does.

16:03And this year those challenges need to be sort of addressed.

16:07You have to be an active member of the discussion to help address

16:11Those issues.

16:11For sure.

16:12But I also think there are areas which we as a community haven't even just realized that we need to start um exposing ourselves to.

16:19And the obvious one is you know exposing ourselves to more critical feedback

16:23from other tools and other things.

16:25You get that from you know your your Power BI crew.

16:27And I actually think that criticism is really healthy.

16:31But I'd love to see us uh going out onto other social platforms.

16:35I think Twitter's has turned into a very safe haven for

16:38the Tableau community.

16:39We all understand it.

16:40We all know how it works.

16:41I'd love to see us go into new places.

16:43So in my front, I'm going to be sort of taking a backseat on

16:46Twitter and going into other platforms.

16:48So Reddit, Snapchat.

16:50I have no idea how Snapchat works, but my god, I'm on my phone.

16:55I have a tablet and profile.

16:56We're gonna have a go

16:58and trying to see if I can reach a different audience.

17:01Two years ago I talked a lot about vlogging and I've tried it and it's really, really hard.

17:06I spent a whole year last year.

17:08Just trying to understand how I could vlog about Tableau and I think I'll figure it out this year.

17:13I think maybe I'm I have something that will work.

17:15Um and then also just producing more engaging content.

17:18I think there's lots of blogs out there.

17:20I don't think

17:21me writing another blog on how to do something technical is going to add anything to the community.

17:25So I'm going to take a slightly different angle and focus in on the product of the

17:29bit more okay to talk more about ideas around improving the product and some of the best discussions I've had about tableau were with people who build tableau.

17:39Absolutely 100%.

17:40That was a really rewarding experience

17:42from conference so I'm gonna try and immerse myself more into that so that's my year ahead and in terms of how you track that the the data I use a tool called RescueTime

17:51which I guess is a very simple thing to do, you know, track the applications you use and your applications as sort of a proxy to what you're doing.

17:58But then there's the softer side of things, you know, how do you make

18:01sure that you're spending enough mental time thinking about those things.

18:06It's not enough just to be in WordPress writing a blog.

18:10The output there is actually what you're putting out, the quality of what you're putting out

18:13putting out and whether people are engaging with it and that's hard.

18:16Yep.

18:16So I think I feel like the structure like I think I feel like that that comes down to this

18:21framing of a goal, right?

18:23Like as in the goal is the end goal, but the the structure and the way you're approaching it is so difficult and should should be the crux of where you're putting most of your efforts in

18:32Uh I think you your sort of um think your vlogging is exactly that.

18:35Like there has to be a good way for you to vlog where you see

18:40you know, you uh as a person talking to the camera but also screen sharing yeah on certain points or having a superimposed image, stuff like that.

18:48Um there's so many different ways to do it and it's finding the right one that w works perfectly for you.

18:53Yeah

18:54So, I mean during my time in the data school we were obviously encouraged to blog and I did, you know, do the oh I'm bored of writing a blog now I'm gonna try doing a video and I hated that because

19:05Well not I wouldn't say I hated it.

19:11I didn't always agree with it because I found it more more difficult

19:17to do that rather than sort of drawing.

19:19I'm a I'm I'm very much a sketcher.

19:21So when I'm sitting with someone explains something, I'll draw something out rather than

19:25Show them.

19:26I mean they both work in tandem and you know having that those two things would be perfect for me if I was to do a how-to vlog.

19:35Um but yeah no I think I think in terms of your goals that they're they sound good right like I feel I've definitely on your side with the community and the fact that it needs to develop and almost evolve, right?

19:45It needs to reinvent itself to be

19:49something different, a bit more nurturing and you know take almost take a step back from uh just pumping content

19:59for the sake of pumping content and more look at purposeful building of blogs and things like this.

20:04Yeah, I think I think the the the thing you touched on there pumping content.

20:08I think

20:09There is uh there's a little bit of an effect which happens a lot on Twitter, which is I think by proxy of what Twitter is and the way the stream works.

20:18um that's what's what's rewarded, right?

20:21Because of because Twitter rewards uh likes and retweets.

20:27You've got the you've got the social environment of it.

20:29So if you're trying to build a profile in this field or in this sector

20:33and you find that most of the community is on Twitter, then and you find that the thing that engages people is content, then that's what naturally happens.

20:40Everyone produces content

20:41content and it's good content, it's not bad content.

20:43Of course yeah.

20:44So um that is an issue with Twitter, which is why I say I think we've gone comfortable with Twitter.

20:49I think if you went to Reddit, if you went to

20:52Lots of different platforms.

20:53I mean Facebook for work that the Tableau London User Group uses.

20:57That's a completely different dynamic and you see different types of conversations happening there

21:02because they're like that.

21:04But the big question for the community for me is we are a minority in those social networks and actually the majority of our users aren't in those places.

21:12So how do you reach them in in their sort of networks and get them the kind of help that this community has to offer?

21:21If you look at Emma White at the Information Lab with the Centre of Excellence, that's a brilliant example of how you can reach a group of people that aren't on a social platform like Twitter, but do need that support and help

21:34And I'd love to see that happening in lots of different ways in in you know in the community.

21:41I think

21:42Also, tracking and data, uh, it takes time for you to be comfortable with a metric that actually allows you to fully understand how you're progressing.

21:52So for me

21:53It took I think about 25 video uploads on YouTube to fully understand what it takes to make a video.

22:02So there is a little bit of a a risk here in that your set goals

22:06uh and you'll sort of be blissfully unaware of what you're going into.

22:10So you'll set some very unrealistic goals initially.

22:13But it's about being happy with the process of discovering that you've set unrealistic

22:17Goals, changing that and then figuring out what metric is it that I should be paying attention to.

22:23So for vlogging, for example, I know that to create a five-minute vlog, I need about an hour

22:28and a half of footage because I know that now.

22:30That's why I haven't vlogged all year because I know I don't have the kind of time I need to put out 10 minute videos every single week.

22:37Yeah

22:38But I know how to build that into my life now and my structure because I know the upfront time it takes.

22:44And by the way, if anyone is interested in vlogging, please be in touch.

22:47I don't want to do this on my own.

22:48I think other people can do it

22:50And I think, you know, this is a community thing.

22:52We should all figure out ways of doing the same thing because we all have different perspectives to offer.

22:57I I feel like the idea of a shared goal

22:59E even you know with this vlog thing, you know, I feel like a shared goal is a lot more maybe even a bit more achievable because you've got multiple people saying, hey

23:08Do you remember that thing we set out today?

23:09Can we just carry on doing it?

23:11Or I've done this much and then you feel obliged?

23:13It's that sort of um peer pressure that can help you achieve a goal, right?

23:17And

23:18Again, if I feel like goal setting at the start of a year with one or two people maybe can help push you a bit further.

23:24Exactly, exactly.

23:25But it it comes down to context, right?

23:27How are you framing your goal?

23:28How are you

23:30approaching the the the outcome and how are you measuring the output?

23:34What I what at the end of 2018, how are you gonna look back and say I achieved this goal or I didn't achieve this goal

23:40But what I want to see is I can you can map I want someone to be able to map the progress to a goal and whether they achieved it or not.

23:48And that should be one of a a long reflection

23:51Mm-hmm.

23:52That's the sort of thing I wanna A good a good feedback mechanism for me is I try not to share my goals too widely and I try and see if other people notice.

24:02those things.

24:03So a really positive thing for me would be for someone at the end of the year to come back and say to me, I've noticed that you know during this period of time you've done more of X.

24:12Because then that to me is important because I'm trying to reach the community.

24:15So therefore if I get positive back feedback from the community, that's a good thing.

24:19I think people should look for more feedback mechanisms like that.

24:23Because um with a lot of what you do, especially goal setting.

24:26If it affects other people, you need to be uh slightly self-aware that you're not self-indulging in um just rewarding yourself.

24:35You need to make sure you're actually doing that something that's rewarding

24:38the collective, if that's your aim.

24:41Yeah, I think that that that that comes down to constant development, right?

24:44And I think this is something that we've spoken about in the past of

24:47how you actually approach learning and how you actually approach sharing and the fact that if you do share something very technical, it should be accessible for multiple levels.

24:56Yes.

24:56So someone who is incredibly good can just scan through it and be like, oh yeah, I understand that from start to finish.

25:02But someone who's very much starting out at the start of their Tableau journey or Altrich Journey or whatever technology you're blogging about and wanting to share

25:09They can also say, that looks interesting, I want to do it, and they can follow along and understand it.

25:14It should be uh accessible in a way that, but also maybe not accessible in that that per perhaps that form, in that medium

25:22But almost successful in that, okay, if anyone wants to know more, please do contact me.

25:26Reach out, yeah.

25:27Reach out, yeah, exactly.

25:28Having that.

25:29Exactly.

25:30And

25:30A webinar even.

25:31I think I feel like webinars are very, very good because you'll get people who are very interested in a certain topic topic coming to you in order to have that interaction one-to-one.

25:41Yeah.

25:42I think I well, I have mixed feelings about webinar.

25:44I always think I also think that they're very poor ways of gauging attention, right?

25:49Because you've really got to have some sort of real-time feedback from the audience.

25:55Um part of, you know

25:56Public speaking is being able to gauge the audience and I always feel webinars, they don't give you that enough.

26:02Um so I feel like they need like a like button.

26:05You know, like on uh Instagram live or whatever

26:07Whatever, Snapchat.

26:12100%.

26:13I feel I although I that said, you gotta think about them, you know, one of the biggest platforms for video sharing right now, Twitch.

26:19Yeah

26:20Yeah.

26:20That has that feedback mechanism.

26:22You you can see who's chatting to and the person who's streaming can, you know, they can see that.

26:28Maybe maybe it's just that the gaming community is a lot more vocal than

26:31Someone who's tuned in to watch, I don't know, me talk about the top five things I've learned about dataviz in the the last month.

26:38I have a confession to make Ravi.

26:40I have a Twitch streamer

26:44And it can you confirm or deny that Twitch is a lot more interactive than a webinar?

26:50I have only had a sum total of uh seven people watch me play dead

26:54Destiny 2.

26:55However, they were very engaged.

26:57And they were they weren't just joining in in terms of comments.

27:01They were actually, you know, sending lots of gonna

27:04great feedback how to do things.

27:05So it is much, much more engaging.

27:07And it's funny how gaming has figured that out to the point where there are even standalone apps that do those kind of things.

27:14Um but yeah, no, I I absolutely agree.

27:17I think technology, um, the way we do things is getting easier and easier to bring in interactions that were previously actually quite hard to do.

27:27I think going forward it's gonna be amazing.

27:29I feel like twenty eighteen is gonna be a year of integrations, right?

27:31Everything is everything's slowly Wasn't that 2017?

27:35Right, yeah, 2017 is a lot of a lot of aggregation, right?

27:38Everyone's got an Alexa or Google now

27:40in their in their home.

27:40Now this is the year when it all starts actually working.

27:43It all starts actually working, developing to a to a more widespread audience.

27:46I believe that when I see it Alexa still goes off on the

27:49TV advert comes up.

27:50It's a long way to go for me.

27:52Fantastic.

27:53Okay, I think that's been an episode of What So What Now What.

27:57Let us know what you think about the format.

27:59the f well it's not the first time it's the second time we've actually recorded.

28:02Yeah, it's like second recording.

28:04At the beginning of the recording, I don't know if you heard, but um we actually recorded an entire episode before this.

28:11Uh two, three months ago.

28:12Yeah, yeah.

28:13And I forgot to press the record button.

28:15So there we go.

28:17So yeah, th th that that that was me checking the start saying, are you definitely sure it's recording this time?

28:22And um hopefully it will be the case.

28:24No, I'd definitely send in our feedback, but also ideas on what you want us to talk about and think about.

28:29I mean we've got a s a brief list already about topics that we're we're happy to cover.

28:34Um but yeah, no, uh any any

28:38Requests I guess will be welcome.

28:40But um yeah, let us know what you think.

28:42And we've kept this under 30 minutes, so we're hoping to keep these podcasts brief and short, just enough for your commute, but not too long.

28:49to sort of drown you out.

28:51Absolutely.

28:52Okay, we'll catch you in the next one.

28:54Thank you, cheers